Comments from the Devs

[Spider-Dan]

So, if I understand you correctly, the difference between tier 1 and tier 2 is so enormous that tier 1 is useless and you should level all the way to tier 2 if you're going to level at all.

HOWEVER

It is also true that data (secret data!) shows that the difference between said abilities is marginal "for the most part."

So which is it? Is the difference between tier 1 and tier 2 massive, or marginal?

At this point, we can safely skip to the end of this little clown show: without providing a single scrap of data (which may or may not exist), your own statements undermine your claim that it's necessary to level all the way to tier 2 to see any substantial benefit. Even you admit that the difference between tier 1 and tier 2 is largely marginal, which was, you know, the entire point.

But you keep on safeguarding that data that you don't have!

[Gadritan]

So, if I understand you correctly, the difference between tier 1 and tier 2 is so enormous that tier 1 is useless and you should level all the way to tier 2 if you're going to level at all.

learn2read. I said that the difference is marginal at best aside from a few abilities. If you min/max, it's worth it to get the tier II abilities since using all tier IIs vs. using all tier Is is significant to overall performance. While marginal individually, it's substantial as a whole. aka, Tiny gains from each = a big gain as a whole.

[Gadritan]

your own statements undermine your claim that it's necessary to level all the way to tier 2 to see any substantial benefit. Even you admit that the difference between tier 1 and tier 2 is largely marginal, which was, you know, the entire point.

Btw, did you crack a tooth when you bit on that?

[Kurokikaze]

Dude just argues to argue. Shits not even remotely entertaining anymore.

[Gadritan]

Yep. It reached that critical failure point.

[Alkar]

For a second there I thought I ended up on the official forums by mistake.

[Spider-Dan]

learn2read. I said that the difference is marginal at best aside from a few abilities.

Hmmm, let me try that reading thing right now:

The tier I versions of the abilities are poop. To get the useful ones, you need the tier IIs, which are so close to cap you may as well finish the job.

Backpedal, backpedal, backpedal!

So which is it: are we forced to level to the 40s to get the useful abilities, or not? Just so I have it straight.

[Neoscrilla]

Tier 1 is a prerequisite level of poop, but to be the shit you need to get to Tier 2 level of poop. Getting to Tier 2 is a gigantic leap of fecal proportions, and if you arent the shit, you are just shitty.

Did I hit all the major points of this argument?

If not, then:

Spoiler: show

Shit, I tried.

[Alkar]

He's right. Why would you even want Cure II, Cure III, Sacrifice II or Sacrifice III. Tier 1 abilities are obviously more than enough in this game and the upgrades are only slight improvements that simply aren't worth pursuing.
FFXI was the same if it wasn't for those bastards forcing us to level our subjobs. WHM learn Cure at 1 so why would I need it any higher?
Utsusemi: Ni is only a slight improvement over :Ichi so NIN was also fine at 12. It's actually nice that there's no way to see your classes in XIV.

[Spider-Dan]

Oh, some of the upper tier abilities (notably: Cure, Sacrifice) are worth going the extra mile for. But a person with all the classes leveled to 20 (which is approximately one full set of leves per class, or was, anyway) can then go on to main one class and be extremely effective. (Mages slightly less so, but mages don't get as much benefit from leveling all DoW to 20 anyway.)

You don't need Featherfoot II or Ferocity II or Siphon MP II to be good at your job. Will it help? Sure. But it's a leveling path that's there for those who care more about every scrap of extra performance than they do about time:benefit ratio.

For a person to claim that it's somehow SE's fault for "forcing" him to level all the way up to tier 2s (when he knows the improvements are marginal!) is just stupid. Your OCD is no one else's fault.

P.S. If non-mage tier 2s didn't share recasts with tier 1s (compare to: Utsu:Ni and Ichi), this would be a totally different discussion.

[miokomioko]

On topic with the crafting changes...

Way better. I was just complaining today that I could take some low level synth, all +3 materials, careful synth the whole way through, finishing with 600+ quality and not be at least guaranteed a +1 on the result. There should at least be thresholds for quality that guarantee +1s or +2s...

[Hiruke]

On topic with the crafting changes...

Way better. I was just complaining today that I could take some low level synth, all +3 materials, careful synth the whole way through, finishing with 600+ quality and not be at least guaranteed a +1 on the result. There should at least be thresholds for quality that guarantee +1s or +2s...

Word. I'm pretty jazzed about those changes. Less blind luck, more you get out what you put in. Ironically, I was thinking just a day or two ago how stupid it is to have +1, +2, and +3. So, I'm glad they are doing away with that and just having NQ and HQ, period.

[Katlan]

Well, good news at least. Whenever this game starts charging fees we'll have a better billing system. I know a lot of people hated the original billing system.

http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...78/detail.html

thats for XI. Who knows if XIV will see changes. XI already had a direct payment option w/o needing to go through a 3rd party

[Rocl]

thats for XI. Who knows if XIV will see changes. XI already had a direct payment option w/o needing to go through a 3rd party

I think the point Vuitton was making (however irrelevant it may be) was that XI was getting rid of their direct payment option and opting to use Crysta. So, the payment method for XI would be the same as XIV's current system, which is using Crysta bought through PayPal or ClickandBuy. However, this change was met with a multitude of moaning and groaning and cursing, and so Square Enix has decided to implement different ways to purchase Crysta. The point is, I gather, that XIV payments are made in Crysta and since this update is making changes to your Square Enix Account options, it changes your XIV payment plan options too. They are adding more options to buy Crysta. FFXIV is still free-to-play, but this news is important if/when it is ever pay-to-play.

[Vuitton]

I think the point Vuitton was making (however irrelevant it may be) was that XI was getting rid of their direct payment option and opting to use Crysta. So, the payment method for XI would be the same as XIV's current system, which is using Crysta bought through PayPal or ClickandBuy. However, this change was met with a multitude of moaning and groaning and cursing, and so Square Enix has decided to implement different ways to purchase Crysta. The point is, I gather, that XIV payments are made in Crysta and since this update is making changes to your Square Enix Account options, it changes your XIV payment plan options too. They are adding more options to buy Crysta. FFXIV is still free-to-play, but this news is important if/when it is ever pay-to-play.

Thank you that was pretty on point. While it may be irrelevant to the game *currently*, it was a major gripe before the game was made free to play. So, it's still a good fix to the game for when it eventually gets good enough to pay for. And at the current rate, I would say that isn't all that far off. Q2 2012 seems reasonably likely.

[Katlan]

I was hoping it meant that they would be getting ride of Click&Buy.. but not that lucky. But, yeah, makes more sense when thinking that XI will go the same way XIV is

[Corrderio]

Eh? Cross-class is the exact same thing atm, just more annoying and time consuming since you need to cap out classes to get the 1-2 really good abilities from them.

From how it sounded classes will be more for solo/lowman and jobs will be for larger parties. So it won't be too bad hopefully, and Yoshida said there was going to be a lot of rearrangements for abilities in 1.19.

[Rocl]

Unrelated, I was trying to find new dev posts, but all I could really get was a german post:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post306303
now I don't speak German, but google translate tells me he's saying the accessory slot cost is going to be abolished?

I could've sworn I read something about this somewhere else too, but going back through the last few pages of this thread is a tremendous headache. (Ah maybe I am thinking the OP which references an April 12th post?)

[Corrderio]

Yoshida did say it was going to be removed after they balance accessory gear.

[Gadritan]

now I don't speak German

Ask The Hoff...