Comments from the Devs

[Vuitton]

Well if you want to complain about what you paid for and what you got instead then do it in the fucking complaint thread. >_>

Spoiler: show

(That's what it's for.)

[Lucavi]

Did you not read? Seriously.

[Cichy]

If there were proper hot keys it would solve my problems with the UI.

[Tomino]

On the topic of content/gear progression, sure, GW2 is coming with the design of dungeons giving items to everyone. But that pretty much feels like the very opposite end of the spectrum from FF11 or WoW days. There had always been a certain thrill in hoping for something to drop (not speaking about retardedly % tho), so it'd be a loss to completely lose the random element.

Bad things don't happen when items randomly drop, they do when the % items are also the "best in slot". A tradition of old MMOs, the concept still remains completely dull and should be dropped by any modern game.
Just have anything resembling "credits" or "reputations" (and I guess Companies are just that) and have the best available items coming from there + crafted, bought elements.
Also, make that it's not just mindless grind (WoW dailies), but that skilled players can acquire credits more efficently than others (then again, the multiple-path dungeons look like a proper solution), just like old merits.

This way you basically have a set of items you wish for, something that you will certainly obtain in a certain time frame.
And as you clear content because of that, you also can be granted additional, useful equipments. In the end, even if you had the worst luck in the world and nothing ever dropped for you, you should still be as competitive as anyone else.

[Cichy]

On the topic of content/gear progression, sure, GW2 is coming with the design of dungeons giving items to everyone. But that pretty much feels like the very opposite end of the spectrum from FF11 or WoW days. There had always been a certain thrill in hoping for something to drop (not speaking about retardedly % tho), so it'd be a loss to completely lose the random element.

Bad things don't happen when items randomly drop, they do when the % items are also the "best in slot". A tradition of old MMOs, the concept still remains completely dull and should be dropped by any modern game.
Just have anything resembling "credits" or "reputations" (and I guess Companies are just that) and have the best available items coming from there + crafted, bought elements.
Also, make that it's not just mindless grind (WoW dailies), but that skilled players can acquire credits more efficently than others (then again, the multiple-path dungeons look like a proper solution), just like old merits.

This way you basically have a set of items you wish for, something that you will certainly obtain in a certain time frame.
And as you clear content because of that, you also can be granted additional, useful equipments. In the end, even if you had the worst luck in the world and nothing ever dropped for you, you should still be as competitive as anyone else.

This is what I've been praying for since day one. I like how Rift has different factions each offering something and even if you participate in a rift battle for few minutes you win favor with certain faction.
I'd like something like that with good items and not kind of decent items like in XI campaign.

[Takiwaki]

On the topic of content/gear progression, sure, GW2 is coming with the design of dungeons giving items to everyone. But that pretty much feels like the very opposite end of the spectrum from FF11 or WoW days. There had always been a certain thrill in hoping for something to drop (not speaking about retardedly % tho), so it'd be a loss to completely lose the random element.

Bad things don't happen when items randomly drop, they do when the % items are also the "best in slot". A tradition of old MMOs, the concept still remains completely dull and should be dropped by any modern game.
Just have anything resembling "credits" or "reputations" (and I guess Companies are just that) and have the best available items coming from there + crafted, bought elements.
Also, make that it's not just mindless grind (WoW dailies), but that skilled players can acquire credits more efficently than others (then again, the multiple-path dungeons look like a proper solution), just like old merits.

This way you basically have a set of items you wish for, something that you will certainly obtain in a certain time frame.
And as you clear content because of that, you also can be granted additional, useful equipments. In the end, even if you had the worst luck in the world and nothing ever dropped for you, you should still be as competitive as anyone else.

I agree,but fuck luck. why should I spend hours/days hoping for a drop and then someone else comes along and gets it in minutes. Also GW2 does have a random element, there are random drops for rare armor, weapons and even craft materials. What happens is that if you complete a specific dungeon path, you will always be rewarded with something and not come up empty handed, and rewarded with something you want or can use, also everyone will be able to gain something not just a drop out of a pool that one person can use.

Another thing that is cool is that since you can mix and match looks, old lower level dungeons will never really become outdated since a specific looking weapon skin or armor will only come from there, you can go back repeat and give it higher level max stats.

I think the entire random luck based crap is stupid, and needs to go. Indeed putting your time spent and work into rewards that are awesome should be possible and not just for the hardcore. I never understood with all the changes to 11 they never really pushed the credit system, that gives good armor. I do see companies doing this I just hope they give top of the line stuff and not just mediocre side grades.

[Hyan]

That really is an easy way to make the game feel like work.

It's never a 10% drop rate where "this time might be it", it's 10 attempts, no more, no less. "Nothing again for sure, but only 8 more to go...yeehaw..."

And it just gets worse when the drop rate goes down. The current system is not completely dull and your proposed system isn't without its dull elements either.

They did push the credit system, Magian trials.

[Cichy]

I agree,but fuck luck. why should I spend hours/days hoping for a drop and then someone else comes along and gets it in minutes. Also GW2 does have a random element, there are random drops for rare armor, weapons and even craft materials. What happens is that if you complete a specific dungeon path, you will always be rewarded with something and not come up empty handed, and rewarded with something you want or can use, also everyone will be able to gain something not just a drop out of a pool that one person can use.

Another thing that is cool is that since you can mix and match looks, old lower level dungeons will never really become outdated since a specific looking weapon skin or armor will only come from there, you can go back repeat and give it higher level max stats.

I think the entire random luck based crap is stupid, and needs to go. Indeed putting your time spent and work into rewards that are awesome should be possible and not just for the hardcore. I never understood with all the changes to 11 they never really pushed the credit system, that gives good armor. I do see companies doing this I just hope they give top of the line stuff and not just mediocre side grades.

I just hope companies will have some campaign like battles where you can participate with others to gain credit and not only quests and dungeons.
All I'm looking for is if I spent X amount of time I can get Y item. I dont care if I have to spend 50 hours campaigning but I want my progress to mean something and be recorded not have a chance at Y item.

[Rocl]

Don't include me in the trolling department. Its not trolling to say that the current UI is garbage, no matter how many times Yoshi talks about revamping it. The reason the UI is terrible (for PC) is because its made for console and resembles a console-based UI in essentially every sense.

Could it all go into the complaints thread? Sure, but then you'd have to weed out every negative remark about every dev comment as well. Every time.

You, Hyan, Spider-Dan, miokomioko, Kuroikaze and probably many others are master trolls in this section. I mean honestly, if you're not trolling, my heart goes out to all of your families.

[Patriarch]

I love the random drop system.

The sense of excitement waiting for the kill, then desperately looking for the item in loot pool never gets old. Then the feeling of satisfaction when that item finally lands in your inventory. Perseus' Harpe is a wonderful, wonderful example for me

But this is just my opinion, and I can see why others like/dislike it

[Hyan]

You, Hyan, Spider-Dan, miokomioko, Kuroikaze and probably many others are master trolls in this section. I mean honestly, if you're not trolling, my heart goes out to all of your families.

I am flattered!

The sense of excitement waiting for the kill, then desperately looking for the item in loot pool never gets old. Then the feeling of satisfaction when that item finally lands in your inventory.

Well, it can get old if you're on the other end of the luck spectrum. But honestly, over time it evens out rather nicely. Either way, I want that feeling of reaching my goal every time I dive in to an event (or most of the time at least). Instead of realizing that there's nothing to expect before I've done this 9 more times.

[Gadritan]

You, Hyan, Spider-Dan, miokomioko, Kuroikaze and probably many others are master trolls in this section. I mean honestly, if you're not trolling, my heart goes out to all of your families.

Master trolls? You're way off son.

Hint:

Spoiler: show

Square Enix

[Grey Jorildyn]

I personally like token systems. It makes sure everyone gets something for their time and they can eventually choose the items they want piece by piece. It's essentially the same concept as dkp but you can get what your heart desires first rather than leaving it to random/slim/fat chance.

[Lucavi]

You, Hyan, Spider-Dan, miokomioko, Kuroikaze and probably many others are master trolls in this section. I mean honestly, if you're not trolling, my heart goes out to all of your families.

Coming from you, I take that as the kindest of compliments.

Thank you.

Back on topic, Rift took a pretty decent swipe at the Random vs. static drops in instances by simply doing both. Every boss had their own static loot pool that dropped randomly (usually cleric, but I digress), there were random drops off of trash throughout the dungeon, and then you had a static "completion bonus" bonus at the end. Most people still had a problem with the boss pools, though, because you could still see the typical "run dungeon 6 times and see the same drops", which is incredibly frustrating, especially when you hit max cap and aren't getting any XP for running something you've probably run a trillion times before. Its in those situations where it just seems best to have a point/token system.

The "thrill" of getting something you want randomly dropping is nice, but that jovial feeling can quickly turn to frustration or jealousy when its someone else that actually winds up with the drop. I don't think there's a best system out there for everyone, but some people certainly like one system over another. I'd prefer a mix of GW2 and the "static" system of Rift. I've had plenty of years of MMOs with low percentages of drops, and not enough years with high percentages of set items or tokens to get sick of the latter yet. I'd rather have my thrills come from the actual fight than from the loot that -may- drop at the end.

[Hyan]

We've seen both in XI. It's nothing novel, although the implementation may slightly differ.

Still don't get what this amazing gw2 system is though. Vague explanations of a feature in an unreleased game. It must be exactly as we envision it to be.

[Lucavi]

XI's took months upon months of grinding to see moderate results with a bastardized version of what everyone is describing. You could say XI's merit system was a stat-based token system, but again, it took forever. I'm leaving XI out of the conversation because it is a self-admitted old-style, first-and-a-half generation MMO that made everything plodding and slow to retain subs. The MMO market doesn't exactly work like that anymore.

[Hyan]

I was thinking of Nyzul with it's ladder-structure and weapons (maybe the tokens even) as well as Assault.

Einherjar took a more basic approach but that was a pretty poor attempt in all honesty.

Could throw alexandrites and ABC's in there but yah.

[Hyan]

Yoshida seems to not give a shit about PL issues.

The whole post could be countered with 'Level sync' and later he even stated that the system is planned to be added. In addition, nothing stops them from having multiple claiming systems for different content (like now with leves or besieged in xi).

Lastly, destination > journey and 50+ level tutorials are the future because nothing is more fun than racing to endgame to grind new gear. I guess like this PL'ing loses appeal, because you can take a dump for 5 levels worth of exp soon enough.

[Hiroishime]

You can already PL with current claiming system by having a r50 inside your party, why the fuck does everyone make it seems like a big news? if anything, the new claiming system are going to make it more hassle because it requires the lower rank character to hit first...

[Tomino]

"Good" design is having multiple rewards tied to the same game activity. I dont mean having a boss dropping 3 pieces, but more of what SE accomplished with Nyzul:

One final, driving goal (reach floor 100).
+ Token related rewards in the meanwhile (think reputation) which work like milestones.
+ Random drops along the way (excitement!), maybe sidegrades, estetics, for your lower jobs or cash.
+ Experience/merits all the time, so helping out it still useful.
+ A place to accomplish other tasks like Magian Trials / taking pictures / farming certain monsters