Comments from the Devs

[TacoTaru]

You saved $13/mo for 12 months. Not only did you make up what you paid for the Collector's Edition, you saved an additional $81. I don't think SE owes you anything at all. Count your blessings.

Not to mention since he bought the CE he got two fully working reg codes which basically means he paid $37.50 per code. Assuming he wants to sell his code he'll actually make money if he hasn't already.

[solracht]

Put all existing characters in one server, reopen 9 of them for new players, allow transfers to and from any of the 10 servers 6months/1year later. What's so hard about this?

Unless they're planning on doing something convoluted like wiping gil and gating levels (Example: all characters are capped at x level for y time), which would be just plain dumb, I don't see how they can do anything but offer a fresh start for most people.

They already said they wouldn't wipe characters, so we can stop beating that horse too.

[Hyan]

Actually the main reason people kept playing was because they wanted to be the best before the game got good, so they could be far ahead of any new rush of players once the game actually reached that point.

Lol yeah, that's what they keep telling themselves. If they weren't enjoying doing just that they wouldn't play.

[Patriarch]

Well that's a relief. My characters remain.

And that is exactly why I leveled, and played as much as I did. When more new content comes, I'll be ready to enjoy it (or closer to enjoying it) than I would have been if I was, say, level 1.

[Spider-Dan]

Put all existing characters in one server, reopen 9 of them for new players, allow transfers to and from any of the 10 servers 6months/1year later. What's so hard about this?

I am interested in hearing your explanation as to why they did not do this for:

JP FFXI PC release
NA FFXI PC release
NA FFXI PS2 release
EU FFXI release
X360 FFXI release

Those players had far more of a jump on newbies than we do now. So why no widespread server protection for FFXI newbies?

Oh, and as for the idea putting every character currently playing the game on one server? That is beyond moronic. What is your obsession with punishing the players who have stuck with this game?

[solracht]

I am interested in hearing your explanation as to why they did not do this for:

JP FFXI PC release
NA FFXI PC release
NA FFXI PS2 release
EU FFXI release
X360 FFXI release

Those players had far more of a jump on newbies than we do now. So why no widespread server protection for FFXI newbies?

Oh, and as for the idea putting every character currently playing the game on one server? That is beyond moronic. What is your obsession with punishing the players who have stuck with this game?

Seeing you compare FFXI's releases (past the JP vs. NA one, at least) with FFXIV's is proof enough that I should follow my own advice from the other thread and walk away from this before it even starts.

[Spider-Dan]

Really? JP vs. NA? That's the one "valid comparison" you pick? I guess you don't think much of the EU.

In any case, since FFXIV has already been released globally, yes, I'm perfectly comfortable comparing the release of a game on a new platform to the release of a game on a new platform.

And if you're trying to say that my arguments are poorly constructed, one post after your brilliant suggestion: combine all existing XIV players onto one server, prohibit server transfers for 6 months, and create 9 new servers exclusively for the PS3 re-release of the most high-profile failure in MMO history... well, at least you picked a great time to make that point.

[solracht]

Fuck, I'll bite.

The difference comes down to FFXI being a finished product past Zilart and before the NA release. Their "sorry, our game sucks, have free game time" didn't last long unless I remember wrong, and it certainly wasn't accompanied by "sorry, our game sucks, let us rebuild it from scratch". Had you only compared those two releases, we'd have more grounds to argue.

Any "re-releases" beyond that point simply invited new players into an already established game and community.

If you think the current FFXIV can compare to that, if you think its community is enough to simply build more around it, especially when you consider that the game the current players are playing right now won't even exist anymore by the time FFXIV re-releases, then I seriously don't know what the hell to tell you.

EDIT: No need to jump on specifics. They could throw people into 3, 4 servers, or even leave them as they are. The point is new players do need a fresh start if they want it this time around. If they didn't think new players could populate a few servers by themselves, then they would've just pulled the plug on us a long time ago. Maybe 9 was indeed a high number however.

[Spider-Dan]

The difference comes down to FFXI being a finished product past Zilart and the NA release. Their "sorry, our game sucks, have free game time" didn't last long unless I remember, and it certainly wasn't accompanied by "sorry, our game sucks, let us rebuild it from scratch". Had you only compared those two, we'd have more grounds to argue.

...except that there was never any sort of forced server migration (for this purpose) or new player protection (besides simply opening up new servers) at ANY point in XI's history, even during the early caveman times.. They didn't reset anything on Zilart release, and the players who were already LV50 with millions of gil got to leverage that against JP Zilart newbies and NA newbies.

Furthermore: what reason do you have to believe that the experience (for new players) on the created-for-NA-release servers was any better than that on the first-gen servers? From where I sit, being dropped into a server that has established crafters ready to buy your exp drops is better than the non-stop NPC fest of early XIV.

Dropping new players into an established server, with higher level players already producing and discarding low- and mid-rank gear, is a feature, not a bug. Of all the aspects you can ascribe to a brand-new server economy, "stability" is not one of them.

[qpoiuwer]

Here's a simple answer: There's more people who would like to start on a fresh server without transfers than people who want new players to join the existing ones. There's a (fair) stigma that the game is completely broken and it has been for a long time and will continue to be for a long time, much more so than FFXI ever was. As such, characters that existing before V2.0 are also essentially 'broken'; notably, it seems like a real possibility that one player could have more gil than the entire rest of the server put together even months after the launch of 2.0. There are more people who will not play if new servers aren't given than people who will stop playing if they can't transfer to new servers (hint: almost no one would quit if they couldn't transfer to a fresh server). Of course they're not going to stop new players if they want to join existing servers.

[Spider-Dan]

As such, characters that existing before V2.0 are also essentially 'broken'; notably, it seems like a real possibility that one player could have more gil than the entire rest of the server put together even months after the launch of 2.0.

It seems like in this context, "broken" = lots of money, many capped classes. I do not see how this differs from XI at all.

The idea that 1 "broken" player could have more gil than the rest of the server (which also contains many other "broken" players) is contradictory. The more likely scenario (on a completely new server) is that the super-hardcore players simply buy a second account on that server, use their existing knowledge to quickly corner various markets with no competition from the uninformed newbies, and build enormous wealth until such time that open server transfers are allowed, at which point they would consolidate their gains into a single mega-account.

There are more people who will not play if new servers aren't given than people who will stop playing if they can't transfer to new servers [...].

The number of people who will only play if new, exclusive servers are created is inconsequential and should not be accounted for.

1) if you are familiar enough with the game to know that it was broken but is now "fixed", you already know people on an existing server, so you're overwhelmingly more likely to go there
2) XIV newbies (that are MMO veterans) understand that a working economy is a good thing, and would specifically avoid the new servers
3) XI had no known history of a constituency demanding a new, exclusive server before they would sign up

The only people who really benefit from exclusive servers are the super-hardcore players that will buy a new additional account, as stated.

[qpoiuwer]

Someone making a new character on a fresh server is completely different. Playing the market is totally fine. What isn't fine is introducing billions/trillions of gil from a broken economy into a fresh and potentially healthy economy.

I'm not saying everyone should get merged into a single server and all new ones opened up without the possibility of transfer. You seem to think I am suggesting that. I am saying that there should be a few servers open for only new people to play on. If you don't think there's enough demand for that to fill a few servers and that people won't play unless that happens, you're simply wrong.

[Patriarch]

How about we all stop arguing over how we think our opinions on the matter are more valid than the other persons.

I completely respect any idea from any of you, albeit you will hear what I think on the matter as well.

I just think it would be pretty lame if SE chose to punish the players who have stuck with the game by character deletion and forced re-start. Which, I doubt this will happen, but who knows. I certainly hope not.

[Amiricle]

My memory may be off, but were not the first couple new servers opened after NA release plagued by a horribly broken economy compared to the rest for quite a while?

[Thiefami]

assuming it stays this way - but the difference between ffxiv and ffxi is that it's SO much easier to make money on xiv.

[Spider-Dan]

Someone making a new character on a fresh server is completely different. Playing the market is totally fine. What isn't fine is introducing billions/trillions of gil from a broken economy into a fresh and potentially healthy economy.

What are they going to do with their billions of gil besides spend it? Buy items that don't exist because there are no crafters and no mats?

No, seriously... what is the dreaded horrible outcome that we are avoiding by excluding the billions of gil that are already in circulation? Are we forcing people to do leves and lowbie quests because nobody has any gil to buy the few sellable drops you got while grinding? Are we not then destroying the meager gil we just earned by buying NPC gear (because there are no crafters making items and no gatherers collecting mats)?

I am honestly waiting for someone to describe the actual negative of having a functional economy. The fact that all of us were around for early XIV's complete lack of an economy makes the request to repeat that experience... bizarre.

Are you at all familiar with what happened at XI's release? Players destroyed mounds of gil buying overpriced NPC gear because there was no infrastructure. Why do you think SE roided-out leve gil rewards for the first few months this game was running?

I am saying that there should be a few servers open for only new people to play on. If you don't think there's enough demand for that to fill a few servers and that people won't play unless that happens, you're simply wrong.

I mean, if SE wants to open new servers (then, now, or anytime in between) that cannot be transferred to, I guess I don't mind? As long as they aren't implementing server merges to make room for them, and new players have the option of joining an established economy or a non-existent one, go nuts. It doesn't affect me.

But this game will not be saved by herding new players on to servers with no infrastructure and no money in circulation. One stone age is enough.

[Siatdiat]

My memory may be off, but were not the first couple new servers opened after NA release plagued by a horribly broken economy compared to the rest for quite a while?

New servers after NA release had a world transfer service set up, so that JP players were able to migrate to them upon creation. I started sometime between NA pc and ps2 release, and the economy wasn't what anyone could really call a good economy for new players. 400-500k for NQ ele staves, 3m for E. bow.

[Tomino]

I think thay actually answered concerns related to old characters in 2.0, their purpose and destiny :

People who kept on playing since release will experience something unique, the conclusion of the game's first storyline. Which would surely means plot/lore (for those who care), CSes (for those who enjoy them) and most certainly loots. Special looking items for sure.
This storyline conclusion will surely offer a challenge to lv50, well geared and skilled players, meaning people won't be able to jump aboard 1 months before the cataclysm just to grab a few items. Well, unless they have a LS or friends that can boost them throught content, which is fine I guess.

In the end, I feel they're giving existing characters a reason to be.

[Alkar]

I'm not sure what you guys are arguing about. Yoshida said we'll keep our characters and our inventory for v 2.0 so that's it.
People who have played so far will take advantage of newbies wether they have to start fresh or not. Do you think a crafter with 2 years of experience in this game starting from scratch will not have an advantage over new people? Do you wanna punish players who have been playing this whole time by not allowing them to play with friends that may want to start when 2.0 is released?
Gil is not the problem. If it was we'd have to reset everyone's money every single time someone new joined. You knew the game was free and you decided to skip/wait. Your fault.

[tol]

single server with all the current players? fucking seen better ideas on the official forums jesus fuck