Comments from the Devs

[Priran]

You're right, new players should be penalized for not playing a game so bad the people who made it couldn't bring themselves to charge for it.

Edit: @fffffffetc

[Draylo]

"Im mad because I'm going to be playing a game with people, who have more currency than I do. They were playing over a year before I started, and I'm mad about that. It's unfair that while I wasn't playing, they were, and now they have lots and lots of currency. Since I am just starting out, I want the pre-existing players away from me because they make things unfair. I'm going to make fun of them for playing for the last year, saying things were broke. Although I am here now, ready to play. I want this game to exist around me. Things are too hard. Bawww."

Thats what I hear from most of you.

You must have been one of the people who played when it was bad.

[Kaylia]

You're right, new players should be penalized for not playing a game so bad the people who made it couldn't bring themselves to charge for it.

Edit: @fffffffetc

As opposed to what? Old players get penalized for sticking around when the game was shitty?

Nobody has to be penalized if they do thing right. You can easily create a system where rich players don't get unfair advantage (unlike ffxi where they were controlling the economy and could get some of the most powerful weapon)

[Priran]

You can easily create a system where rich players don't get unfair advantage

calling bullshit on that.

[Kaylia]

calling bullshit on that.

For starter, just look at WoW economy. The inflation that happen every expansions make it pointless to hoard your gold, so you have to spend it. However, the only thing I can spend my money on is vanity pet, mounts, and alt gears. Simply buying every items that help me on my main wouldn't even make a dent in my pocket.

There is nothing complicate about such system, and it's not even the only one


In FFXI, it was harmful because catching up was extremely hard unless you found another loop hole in the system (bot nm-> sell loot, fishbot money) or played a retarded amount of time doing something most people considered boring.

Secondly, rich players gained a lot of advantages over the rest of the population. You could argue that "+1" are not much better than a rare mount, but when most of the games consist of gearing your character, it's stupid that certain are ahead you because of a matter of circumstance, or because they bought gil.


What they have to avoid that is to add top tier items being worth gold (ie: relic, HQ+1), and adds a bunch meaningless gilsink (cosmetic gears, special chocobo)

[Priran]

Well if they actually found a way for gil to be less important then I'd be all for it. However, considering they cut leve rewards, keep adding gil sinks, and based like half the classes around performing economic functions that seems highly unlikely.

[Kaylia]

Well if they actually found a way for gil to be less important then I'd be all for it. However, considering they cut leve rewards, keep adding gil sinks, and based like half the classes around performing economic functions that seems highly unlikely.

They had to nerf money rewards or the problem will only be worse by 2.0. It was necessary step to get the economy under control. As long it doesn't hurt new players who want to repair, take the airship, or buy a decent weapon, it's not an issue.

All they have to do now is add money sink that spread money around between the playerbase or remove huge chunk out of the economy without giving the buyer an advantage over other. I think materia might be a decent way to spread money around for now (you can sell them, right?)

[Elrina]

Once again:

Did you play XI?
If so, did you feel the same crushing sense of despair when you started that game?

It should be expected that people who aren't actually playing this game (but continue to follow it and post to forums about it) would be depressed at the thought of starting over in the midst of all the people who have detailed all of their progress to this point. Suffice it to say that this is not a sizable portion of the population. (Don't Lodestone forums specifically prohibit access from people who are not still playing the game?)

I played XI for several years, actually, same as most on BG. But the parallels to XI are, to me, silly. I haven't actually paid attention to most of your argument with Priran, because it seems like you guys are going way off track to try to twist each other around on the issue. But when I started playing XI, I knew from the beginning that I was joining a game on servers that were established before I started playing.

When I bought FFXIV, I bought it expecting a new game, on new servers. Instead, I got pretty much literal garbage. Since then, the game has been a construction site of changes, problems, balance issues, etc. My view is that a re-release around the 2.0 stage, when they're planning on doing a PS3 release and PC re-release, along with new free trial periods for everyone at that point, is signalling a new beginning point for the game. Essentially using the standpoint, in both marketing and game wise, that the version of FFXIV seen from it's "original" release was a dragged out mistake that just took a while before it was fixed.

Considering that, it seems ludicrous not to put in new servers for new players for what should be considered at that point a new game, not an established one. I fail to see why it would affect anybody who didn't specifically want it, and why anybody should really be "against" it, other than specifically to have an edge over a larger population of players. How does it affect you at all? Why does it bother you that other people may want to treat the game as if it were completely brand new when it finally comes out of it's 2+ year long beta?

Seriously, what is the problem with adding a few new servers for whoever wants them? People who don't care, or would like to play with existing players would have the option to. Why is there such a huge argument, and why are people who want new servers so that they can start the game from it's "new starting point" as if it were freshly released being insulted? How does it seriously fucking affect anybody who is already on an established server, or wants to join one, at all?

The people who already have multimillions (or friends, or shellmates) are not those clamoring for new protected servers. The people making that demand are (almost exclusively) those who wish to be upper-crust plutocrats, but stopped playing this game too early to easily do so on existing servers.

Therefore, they want new, separate servers so they can leverage their advantage in game knowledge over true newbies (at relaunch) that don't have access to the same information.

Mostly.

Not even remotely true, and is actually an offensive assumption. I personally, as an example, have very little in-game knowledge that is pertinent at all. I like to keep an idea of what's going on with the game, but that in no way extends to any actual knowledge of stuff in-game. I visit the XIV news section, not the information one (because, blatantly, I don't really give a shit about the game and simply keep an eye on some of the information to stay informed about it's future potential).

Your assumption would mean it's the only reason people ever play new MMOs. Here's a hint, for you and some of the others here, Final Fantasy XIV will be getting treated like a new game by Square-Enix at it's re-release, because you are a fraction of the potential customers they want and the rest of us who aren't currently playing are more important. It will be a New MMO for most of the influx of people (since even those who came back, but only played for a few weeks, don't really count, considering the beta quality at best it was last year), and New MMOs have empty servers that do not have established economies and endgame linkshells/guilds.

I've never managed to gain an edge in any new expansion XI got, nor any other new MMO/expansion I've played, and don't care to. But I do care greatly about the idea of starting a new game at it's release, among a crowd of others just starting out, and being part of establishing it.

I'll say it again. A new game should be fun at it's release. It should be balanced at it's released, so that just starting out on an empty server is still fun. So that the initial growth and availability of the economy is balanced and fun. If it isn't or wouldn't be fun, it isn't ready for release, or re-release or whatever, yet.

God damn, I just don't get why people have to be insulting about this. It's not like it's going to force anything on the current crowd of players. It's something that will exclusively apply only to people who actually do want to play on a new server at the game's re-release. I don't understand why anybody should begrudge people that option when starting from a new beginning point in FFXIV's lifespan, when it will only affect the people who specifically want it, and nobody else.

[Sephiroth]

A rich buyer should always have advantage over the average player. Gil needs to stay relevant. You don't get lots of gil without lots of effort (unless you RMT) so you should be rewarded for it. XI's buy a relic was retarded but there's nothing wrong with high tier gear that is sellable. As long as it's not a 1% drop rate from a 24 hour NM.

Making gil irrelevant would have its own effects on the economy, I'd not make gear for anyone but myself for starters. Nor would most other people. So you'd best get six crafts to 50. You want food? Best rank up cooking too then.

[Draylo]

A rich buyer should always have advantage over the average player. Gil needs to stay relevant. You don't get lots of gil without lots of effort (unless you RMT) so you should be rewarded for it. XI's buy a relic was retarded but there's nothing wrong with high tier gear that is sellable. As long as it's not a 1% drop rate from a 24 hour NM.

Making gil irrelevant would have its own effects on the economy, I'd not make gear for anyone but myself for starters. Nor would most other people. So you'd best get six crafts to 50. You want food? Best rank up cooking too then.

Greedy, this is why they have a problem with new servers.... They want to be the rich and take advantage of new players. Not much needed to be said, people who wanna start over will choose a different server away from these die-hards who played just to stay ahead, which is a huge majority of the people with a bunch of 50+.

[Kaylia]

I've never managed to gain an edge in any new expansion XI got, nor any other new MMO/expansion I've played, and don't care to. But I do care greatly about the idea of starting a new game at it's release, among a crowd of others just starting out, and being part of establishing it.

If you get most of your gears from dungeon and quests, the impact of old players on you is going to be minimal. Why does it bother you if older players are on the same server?

A rich buyer should always have advantage over the average player. Gil needs to stay relevant. You don't get lots of gil without lots of effort (unless you RMT) so you should be rewarded for it. XI's buy a relic was retarded but there's nothing wrong with high tier gear that is sellable. As long as it's not a 1% drop rate from a 24 hour NM.

Why? Economy doesnt really impact the social aspect of the game which is what most players are looking for in FFXIV.

Why not say that "A skilled player should have advantage over other players" instead. Nobody want another game where money is everything. That was the worse part of ffxi, and unless you're for a bunch of problem (rmt, more drama), its not the way to go.

Players should be rewarded for their hardwork, not for fucking up other people. If you want your economy to be significant, shit like this is bound to happen.

[Kirbyprime]

Make colored chocobos cost 5mil per green/blue, 10mil per black, 25mil for shining gold. >.> There, you got yourself a gilsink.

[Sephiroth]

Greedy, this is why they have a problem with new servers.... They want to be the rich and take advantage of new players. Not much needed to be said, people who wanna start over will choose a different server away from these die-hards who played just to stay ahead, which is a huge majority of the people with a bunch of 50+.

I'm pretty sure I could go to any new server and dominate the economy with my knowledge of the game and you can guarantee people like Priran who failed to do so in the current servers due to not playing much will be doing just that. So either way new players are going to be at a big economic disadvantage.

If I wanted to be an asshole I'd create a second account on a new server, clean up all the gil and then transfer it to my main server when it's possible. I see more opportunities to make gil on a new server with the knowledge advantage than in the current economy. I would be the guy getting my crafts to 50 before anyone else, supplying the entire server with their (now easy to make) gear as they hit the required ranks. They will pay a premium for it because I'll be the only supplier and you'll be one of hundreds of buyers. 100k for a DD body piece x300 every 5 ranks = yes please. Opportunities like that are what people like Priran are dreaming of.

So I'm not against new servers, I could play that economy too and transfer out if I wanted. New players will be disadvantaged either way it goes. They would have to do another gear reset and make all current materials and recipes trash at v2 to put everyone on a new server back on equal footing and they have said they won't be doing that again.

If you get most of your gears from dungeon and quests, the impact of old players on you is going to be minimal. Why does it bother you if older players are on the same server?



Why? Economy doesnt really impact the social aspect of the game which is what most players are looking for in FFXIV.

Why not say that "A skilled player should have advantage over other players" instead. Nobody want another game where money is everything. That was the worse part of ffxi, and unless you're for a bunch of problem (rmt, more drama), its not the way to go.

Players should be rewarded for their hardwork, not for fucking up other people. If you want your economy to be significant, shit like this is bound to happen.

Crafting to make hundreds of millions takes skill and hard work too. I didn't just pop Crab Bow +3s out my ass, I had to figure out the best way to produce them and is why I made more than anyone on my server. Of course they are taking the skill out of crafting as much as possible with the HQ change in 1.20, but hopefully they will find some new method for crafters to become good at their job rather than just another crafter.

You should apply your logic to the real world too. Who would produce your goods and services if money was worthless? Who would build large corporations to produce products like FFXIV if having lots of money was pointless? Money makes the world go round and it's the same in an MMO. It's a motivation factor.

[Gokku]

Wallstreet was here your RL argument is moot.

[Spider-Dan]

Seriously, what is the problem with adding a few new servers for whoever wants them? People who don't care, or would like to play with existing players would have the option to. Why is there such a huge argument, and why are people who want new servers so that they can start the game from it's "new starting point" as if it were freshly released being insulted? How does it seriously fucking affect anybody who is already on an established server, or wants to join one, at all?

Because part of the problem with XIV's release was the total lack of economic infrastructure. Yes, every MMO deals with this issue when it is first released, but unlike every other MMO, XIV has to fight uphill against a mountain of existing negative publicity. So new players should be put in the best possible scenario to start, and that means putting them in servers with functioning economies.

God damn, I just don't get why people have to be insulting about this. It's not like it's going to force anything on the current crowd of players. It's something that will exclusively apply only to people who actually do want to play on a new server at the game's re-release. I don't understand why anybody should begrudge people that option when starting from a new beginning point in FFXIV's lifespan, when it will only affect the people who specifically want it, and nobody else.

As I've already said, the reason why I'm against it is that I don't think it's good for the game to have a bunch of veterans join new servers just so they can abuse true newbies and quickly take control of the market. But I have a compromise for you:

- At relaunch, all new accounts are directed towards existing servers
- SE creates special, "World Pass"-accessible servers that are completely empty, and posts the access code on the official forum (which requires an active account to access)

That way, the veterans who want to start over on an empty server can do so without being forced into a position (incidentally, I have been assured!) where they are taking advantage of unsuspecting newbies. And if there are newbies who specifically and intentionally prefer to start on a server with a stone-age economy (and deal with everything that such a choice entails), after they sign up for the game, they can go to the official SE forum and get the access code.

[Draylo]

How would you quickly control the market when there are 50 other scrubs with the exact same idea, and a lot of people whom have the information readily available? If anything they would restrict moving to new servers for almost a year+ as there isn't a current server transfer service, this greatly hurts your plan doesn't it money bags?

[Sephiroth]

How would you quickly control the market when there are 50 other scrubs with the exact same idea, and a lot of people whom have the information readily available? If anything they would restrict moving to new servers for almost a year+ as there isn't a current server transfer service, this greatly hurts your plan doesn't it money bags?

Well like I said you'd have to make a new account and start fresh but your knowledge would earn you the gil. Then transfer it when they do enable world transfers from those worlds. It's not something I would ever do as it's assholish but it's no different to the idea people are crying for now where they want to start fresh because they failed to earn big money in the current economy. Genuine new players won't even be on here to have this discussion.

[Draylo]

True, that is a bit dedicated though, spending a year on a new server just to make gil. I guess if they botted their craft job to cap and just two boxed or something. There would still be an equal opportunity for everyone though, so people who frequent BG and know about crafting and such can still compete in that market.

[Spider-Dan]

True, that is a bit dedicated though, spending a year on a new server just to make gil. I guess if they botted their craft job to cap and just two boxed or something. There would still be an equal opportunity for everyone though, so people who frequent BG and know about crafting and such can still compete in that market.

Well, yes, there would be an "equal opportunity" on new servers for veterans who are still currently playing the game and veterans who stopped playing but continued to read XIV forums. Conspicuously absent from that list are, you know, actual newbies.

That's the whole point; the people who are still following this game but want new servers to be made would obviously benefit from having a big information advantage over true newbies. Now, you can insist that You Don't Really Intend To Take Advantage of newbies all you want, but at the end of the day, you have that advantage.

[Manako]

Having to relive the begining of FFXIV's economy is not exactly my idea of fun, even with the improvements they have made (but oh the memories). I remember overpriced blacklip oysters, and studying how to make a harpoon for myself and tracking down one of the few fishermen who could provide me the supplies to make fish glue. I remember the hordes of people running around with level 8 harpoons for dozens of ranks, because the higher level weapons were scarce and waaay overpriced. They are going to shuffle the servers around as part of their restructuring which is fine, maybe they will add new servers (also fine.) But personally as a new player I would think you'd be much happier on an existing server because things will be much more available to you.