Comments from the Devs

[Vuitton]

grid like actions using the analogue is too limited and won't work for a game with so many abilities/actions. maybe if you're just some dumb melee class with three or four abilities that is cool. a mage has a lot more complexity to be tied down to such a primitive system.

might work for the new monk class in WoW though?

[Hyan]

I don't understand? You can easily have 9 actions in a single grid and if they let us switch them then we could have much more than that?

[Xanthe]

grid like actions using the analogue is too limited and won't work for a game with so many abilities/actions. maybe if you're just some dumb melee class with three or four abilities that is cool. a mage has a lot more complexity to be tied down to such a primitive system.

might work for the new monk class in WoW though?

I don't understand? You can easily have 9 actions in a single grid and if they let us switch them then we could have much more than that?

Actually, Arkham City had 12 actions in its grid (2 in each cardinal direction plus 1 on each diagonal), plus 4 quickfire actions. Many of the grid actions then have a secondary mode when selected. That's a good deal of functionality with only a single grid. Adding in multiple customizable grids would make for a fairly robust system.

[Elcura]

maybe if you're just some dumb melee class with three or four abilities that is cool.

You definitely know what you're talking about.

[Corrderio]

Yoshida responds about class changes:

Hi, this is Yoshida, the producer/director.

We are currently finalizing the text of the next update. I will confirm the adjustments made over the weekend. We will be making some more adjustments tomorrow, and once translation is complete we will reveal the class revamp concepts and specs. Following that we will be announcing the new abilities, actions and traits for each class. Please hang on a little bit longer!

Originally Posted by pub
As a result of class revamps, it may be possible that something that you leveled a certain class to attain is moved to a different class. Do you plan on preparing a bail-out for these cases?

Our next class revamps will not alter the fundamentals of each class.

As such, some details will be changed, but there will not be any major changes for classes.

Of course, if there are many demands for change after we release the details of the class revamps, we will look into those demands.

[Jakson]

Here goes to hoping elemental nukes are considered fundamental to CNJ even though, apparently, CNJ=WHM.

[Hyan]

People making a big fuss out of CNJ=WHM THM=BLM are pretty silly at this point.

Both need to be leveled to unlock each job. Both can borrow elements from each other while giving up some of their own to form the jobs. THM has the light element while being pretty clearly on the 'evil' side of things. CNJ is the tree hugging hippie with some elemental nukes to go with it.

[Alkar]

Here goes to hoping elemental nukes are considered fundamental to CNJ even though, apparently, CNJ=WHM.

They are but don't expect to nuke when WHM is equipped. Classes will stay the same but jobs will focus its abilities towards one role only (for now).
You need both mages at 50 to be an effective mage anyway so there's no issue here. I hope 1.20 changes the casting animations already.

[Hyan]

Producer/Director Yoshida Here

Still writing up or more like proofing.
It's really long post so it may take 2 more hours.
"For devs until they sleep it's still same day" so I will post sometime tonight but for everyone it might be better if you rest and read tomorrow ^^;

Sorry for the delay

It's just 2am JST, whatcha bitching about geez. It's not even Sunday or a public holiday.

[solracht]

People making a big fuss out of CNJ=WHM THM=BLM are pretty silly at this point.

Both need to be leveled to unlock each job. Both can borrow elements from each other while giving up some of their own to form the jobs. THM has the light element while being pretty clearly on the 'evil' side of things. CNJ is the tree hugging hippie with some elemental nukes to go with it.

Why are the class guilds suddenly relevant to justify the mage jobs? I keep on seeing the guild/practitioner argument being used by those who support the CNJ=WHM and THM=BLM pairings (see the "canoical" explanation thread), and it makes no sense to me. Do we really think that Paladin is going to be related to the colisseum too? Lancer to the wailers? Monk to the casino? I didn't think so.

If Dragoon is going to be conveniently tied to Ishgard (not Gridania, where it'd destroy all existing lancer-guild lore), White Mage could've been tied to the Astral Temple in Ul'dah.

Pre-1.18 gameplay changes, putting aside how the community viewed mages, and looking purely at spell lists, does anyone honestly think that turning Conjurer into BLM and Thaumaturge to WHM would've been more awkward than what we ended up with? Of course 1.18 made their direction pretty clear, and I agree it's pointless to make a big fuss now, but that doesn't mean things were always so obvious.

[Hyan]

Why are the class guilds suddenly relevant to justify the mage jobs?

We can ignore them too. Just look at their abilities and spells, which are clearly in line with what their guilds are up to.

That said THM and CNJ are pretty much the easiest classes to fit into the Job system. Like you said, other classes don't have the same luxury.

does anyone honestly think that turning Conjurer into BLM and Thaumaturge to WHM would've been more awkward than what we ended up with?

Just look at the spells. Shadow this, evil that, blood and contagion. All CNJ had going for it black magic-wise were pretty neutral elemental nukes as far as the big picture is concerned.

That isn't to say that BLM hasn't traditionally been pretty neutral in the grand scheme of things, but who is to say that they can not be more.. absolute here, searching for power through any means? The class is definitely closer to BLM than WHM, with or without elemental nukes or lore supporting it.

[miokomioko]

Just a few jobs are might be sects of said groups. Dragoons have nothing to do with Gridania's Wood Wailers. Bards might maybe be related to the Archer's guild, though. It's unlikely that a Warrior-Mage has anything to do with a ship of pirates. Monks who temper their mind/spirit/body are probably not going to be based on a group of people who trained as bouncers and gofers for a Casino, no.

Once you're required to have some sort of proficiency in more than one class, your loyalty to one guild and the reliance on their backstory kinda' dwindles.

[Kaiyoko]

Just a few jobs are might be sects of said groups. Dragoons have nothing to do with Gridania's Wood Wailers. Bards might maybe be related to the Archer's guild, though. It's unlikely that a Warrior-Mage has anything to do with a ship of pirates. Monks who temper their mind/spirit/body are probably not going to be based on a group of people who trained as bouncers and gofers for a Casino, no.

Once you're required to have some sort of proficiency in more than one class, your loyalty to one guild and the reliance on their backstory kinda' dwindles.

What do you mean by Warrior-Mage?

Plus, maybe they are going to have MNKs be more of a drunken master with gambling problems to relate to the PUGs guild.

[Hyan]

Paladin.

I think that PLD will take some aspects of MRD and their relation to the job could be explained in one way or the other. it wouldn't also surprise me if PGL's "partner" class is a mage.

Warrior is a pirate-viking. No explanations required.

[solracht]

We can ignore them too. Just look at their abilities and spells, which are clearly in line with what their guilds are up to.
...

Just look at the spells. Shadow this, evil that, blood and contagion. All CNJ had going for it black magic-wise were pretty neutral elemental nukes as far as the big picture is concerned.

That isn't to say that BLM hasn't traditionally been pretty neutral in the grand scheme of things, but who is to say that they can not be more.. absolute here, searching for power through any means? The class is definitely closer to BLM than WHM, with or without elemental nukes or lore supporting it.

I find the problem is really the Thaumaturge, since I don't think it fits either job. BLMs aren't grim or dark either (ironically).

Don't get me wrong, I think things would've been awkward for a lot of people regardless of what they had chosen ( again, pre 1.18 ). It's not like THM=WHM would make sense without changes, either, but I think it'd have been less awkward overall. With the current pairings CNJ is giving up on 6 magic schools (the elements) rather than one (astral), and god knows how many spells THM is going to need to "absorb" from conjurer for FF fans to shut up.

I'm not a Black Mage fan in other FFs by any means and I leveled Conjurer to 50 to heal (stating this to make clear that I don't personally hold a vendetta against them for "ruining mah class/job!!1" like a lot of people in the forums), but I guess a part of me can't help but feel like they are stretching things quite a bit by making the class that's been shown with wooden canes, pointy hats and elemental spells the white mage, while making the hooded class that wields clubs and uses dark/holy magic the black mage.

[Hyan]

Nevertheless they will most likely have to depart themselves from the traditional templates in one way or the other like you said, but I can't see why the pairings wouldn't make sense otherwise. I mean we are not talking about a huge stretch of imagination here, and someone who doesn't have any preconceptions would probably be perfectly fooled. The hippie elementalist takes up the healing duties while the dark absolute bloody evil shadow fellow is the practicer of offensive magic.

It can be a breath of fresh air, unless it makes no sense from any possible point of view... Which is still a possibility of course.

[Kaiyoko]

Going w/ the assumption of THM 30 + COJ 15 = BLM ( I think it's a pretty safe one ). Maybe having T1s at 1st and then the higher THM gets when playing on BLM gives access to the higher Tiers, but when you switch back to THM you lose them? Or they only give you Scourge and Banish unless you raise COJ higher too which basically makes BLM a THM w/ more Magic DMG.

Idk it doesn't make sense w/ the current set up. I can see where a lot of people are receiving the confusion.

[Hyan]

Sure, the Jobs don't exactly have to strictly follow the class they share their levels with in neither lore nor functionality. The important thing here is that they only have one role they specialize in regardless.

[miokomioko]

This is the concept that was described as "Warrior-Mage":

Spoiler: show

Obviously, this is not a Paladin and there is nothing "Warrior-Mage" about the Marauder's Guild. Unless there's been some sort of translation-mishap that inexplicably threw the word "Mage" in there.

[solracht]

I thought that was a mistranslation for the Bard armor (or someone getting too excited about RDM)? Am I thinking of something else?