Comments from the Devs

[Crab_Cake]

Easiest way is to implement a method that detects where you have said class or job leveled up.

Say if you have DRG to 75 and the item can only be equipped on DRG but you're currently playing as WHM - The game checks all your classes and notices you have DRG at 75 so you can roll Need.

Currently though it looks like players will need to do this manually though (he said players have to /random >.>?). Hopefully they'll sort it out in the future.

Is this not common sense?

Maybe. The question is if SE gets it and implements it exactly like that.

Edit - Added quote for reference (since this is a new page).

[miokomioko]

The game is already capable of doing a check of your classes/levels/etc. since it does so to determine quest availability when you walk near a relevant NPC. I think it's just the idea that a need/greed system (for a class-changing game) implemented with no restrictions at all would be heavily skewed to benefit players who have multiple high-level classes so they want to be a bit more careful about it. It would be nice to have a basic system like that where and give tje party/alliance leader the ability to manipulate the values... such as giving each party member limited amount of tiers of priority for what class' equipment they might want during the duration of the party/raid... like most people would do with search comments for Dynamis and such.

[dfdfpp]

Easiest way is to implement a method that detects where you have said class or job leveled up.

Say if you have DRG to 75 and the item can only be equipped on DRG but you're currently playing as WHM - The game checks all your classes and notices you have DRG at 75 so you can roll Need.

Currently though it looks like players will need to do this manually though (he said players have to /random >.>?). Hopefully they'll sort it out in the future.

DING DING DING!

This is exactly the kind of drama-inducing stuff Vuitton was talking about though, where the definition of need is so weak that it's basically everyone. So do you give a rare drop to someone who is currently on that class, currently has that class leveled but isn't on it right now, or declared the class as his main (even though he has to come on something else because no one else wants to play it, so he gets to technically have two "mains"). All of these situations were fairly common with XI from what I remember, and with current leveling times, it wouldn't even be that bad (to me) to just give it to someone who and plans to level that class and has done a significant amount more work than the only other eligible newbie who came in two days ago.

In WoW you (generally) don't have these concerns, or they are at least minimized to a few classes (like weapons).

Even more hilarious is when there's an obvious pecking order for the fight so you COULD use that class but no one wants you to because it makes crap harder, which we all know is going to happen in this game unless the classes are literally the same. But you want an item for it. But you have to use another class. And some doofus who doesn't have anything else leveled up comes as that class instead of you.

[Crab_Cake]

For going with random people, that way works. For linkshells though they'd have to do something similar to point system (like how linkshells informally did it) in FFXI. SE could make an official system and make it so that if a party with nothing but linkshell members are in it then you need points (gained from linkshell leaders) to lot on items. The leader can set the cost, etc.

Of course this has the flaw that leaders can abuse this.

Another alternative is probably just to make it so items don't drop but players instead get points earned for doing the BC which they can exchange.

Points gained would scale based on number of players (if 1 player does the BC, the person gets 600 points. However if 6 players do the BC, each gets 100 points only).

(Points will be decided when people enter not at the end of the battle. This prevents people exploiting it and disbanding or removing party members to gain more points just before battle ends.)

The item gained ratio can be the same with this.

Lets say there is a 100% chance of two items dropping in the current system, that means only 2 out of 6 players can obtain it per round.

If we convert this to points (and to make it fair) we could make it so an item costs 300 points. However since the BC only awards 100 points per fight (it's 600 points divided by number of players) then that means (with six) you'd need to do it three times.

However unlike with the random method, that means every player will get what they want after three rounds (no problems of duplicate weapons no one needs). This means the time spent doing the BC is reduced since there will be no worries of duplicates.

To compensate for this, they could make it so that it costs more points to buy one weapon instead of 300.

[Cooleko]

Your ideas are grand and all, but SE wants you to pay to play, and allowing you to complete a quest X times means you will play X times and then be done. I can't fathom SE making it convenient like this at all.

[Waraji]

Yall come up with the most ludicrous, least possible (in terms of likelihood) "systems" one could ever implement in a game. XI had it set, it was clean and simple, all they had to do was add a way to directly manipulate who could really lot shit. Hence this need/greed system they are cooking up. Highly doubt it is going to be a copy/paste of current gen need/greed systems.

[Lucavi]

Yeah, XI's was clean and simple. All those years were certainly drama-free with nobody stealing anything, then breaking pearls and rolling off with ill-gotten gains. That never happened all the time, huh?

[Neoscrilla]

Your ideas are grand and all, but SE wants you to pay to play, and allowing you to complete a quest X times means you will play X times and then be done. I can't fathom SE making it convenient like this at all.

I understand what you are getting at here, but not all are like that. I myself helped many many people do things in XI after I had done them (Khazam keys, Limit Breaks, unlock jobs), hell I even helped people that I didnt know sometimes if they were shouting and I was bored. Best way to alleviate this would be to keep throwing in carrot dangling content swiftly, then that will keep people coming back.

[Spider-Dan]

Yeah, XI's was clean and simple. All those years were certainly drama-free with nobody stealing anything, then breaking pearls and rolling off with ill-gotten gains. That never happened all the time, huh?

Unless you have discovered a system that is impossible to corrupt, this is not a productive statement.

[Niiro]

Your ideas are grand and all, but SE wants you to pay to play, and allowing you to complete a quest X times means you will play X times and then be done. I can't fathom SE making it convenient like this at all.

By that logic everyone who is lucky and goes 1/1 on things they need stops participating/playing immediately after.

I don't think I need to go into how flawed and untrue that line of thinking is, much less how the alternative (gradual progress) is superior.

Unless you have discovered a system that is impossible to corrupt, this is not a productive statement.

By that logic we shouldn't point out when things are fucking retarded unless we can develop a universally perfect system ourselves.

I may not know how mankind can achieve inter-stellar travel, but I know building a really, really long ladder isn't how we should go about it.

[Lucavi]

Unless you have discovered a system that is impossible to corrupt, this is not a productive statement.

Silly SD.

[Lordender]

I'm sorry, theres NO fucking excuse not to have some sort of lot casting system and making people wait until 2.0 for it is terrible. At the BARE minimum a temporary lotting system like XI would work until they do the need/greed system in 2.0. If you want to be a douche during the temporary lotting system period then your name should be smeared all over the server so no one wants anything to do with you.

The way they need to do a need/greed system is only by allowing need if that class is present and making sure you cannot change class as loot is being rolled on so that LNC(s) that are present are the only ones able to need on a polearm while everyone else can greed it. This way you can have heavy armor be needed on by GLD,MRD,LNC Leather type armor: ARC/PGL. Cloth Armor: THM/CON. I would even go as far as restricting class change during a dungeon as you enter or when entering the said primal boss fight so only the appropriate classes can need on their respective loot to prevent people from trying to abuse the system.

[Kurokikaze]

New letter is up. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/31373

[Cooleko]

By that logic everyone who is lucky and goes 1/1 on things they need stops participating/playing immediately after.

I don't think I need to go into how flawed and untrue that line of thinking is, much less how the alternative (gradual progress) is superior.

You missed the point I made. Gradual progress as you put it is a X/X progression not a 1/1. Play X times get your stuff and be done with it. You and your friends are all done everyone got their drop after X times. Possibly 2x, 3x, ..., depending on number of jobs. SE wants you to play forever, not just X times.

Dont take it the wrong way, I completely wish it was this way; but, I just dont see it happening and wanted to point out the way SE will most likely view it as a company wanting to milk its customer base.

[Corrderio]

New letter is up. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/31373

Some nice info after the depressing news on ARC's auto staying the same and Yoshida still fucking up the Ifrit loot

[Cichy]

I guess expecting the update mid December now and with billing he should just stick to 1.21 release instead of getting all the people pissed of now with it.

[Lucienne]

I guess expecting the update mid December now and with billing he should just stick to 1.21 release instead of getting all the people pissed of now with it.

Probably stupid to start billing right around Christmas.

[Alkar]

I'm sorry, theres NO fucking excuse not to have some sort of lot casting system and making people wait until 2.0 for it is terrible. At the BARE minimum a temporary lotting system like XI would work until they do the need/greed system in 2.0. If you want to be a douche during the temporary lotting system period then your name should be smeared all over the server so no one wants anything to do with you.

The way they need to do a need/greed system is only by allowing need if that class is present and making sure you cannot change class as loot is being rolled on so that LNC(s) that are present are the only ones able to need on a polearm while everyone else can greed it. This way you can have heavy armor be needed on by GLD,MRD,LNC Leather type armor: ARC/PGL. Cloth Armor: THM/CON. I would even go as far as restricting class change during a dungeon as you enter or when entering the said primal boss fight so only the appropriate classes can need on their respective loot to prevent people from trying to abuse the system.

This system is even worse. The game should not lock you out of a lot if you're not going as said class. What they need to do is give Linkshells and Private Companies the tools to handle this without keeping lists of names and points somewhere on their PCs. If someone is always present at events and is the main healer of the group he should not be penalized because the new guy only has Thaumaturge and maybe after he gets the drop he stops attending altogether.
Give Linkshell Leaders and sacks a personal window where they can assign points after events or based on presence (whatever rules the LS decides on) even on the Lodestone so that every member can actually see how they stand all the time.

[solracht]

We could do what every game since 2005 has done, which is adding multiple loot systems that can be chosen/used based on what the party wants, rather than expecting one system to work for every single situation.

This game will easily take Warcraft's throne as the game with the worst PUGing community if the Need/Greed rolls are flagged based on the classes you have leveled instead of the class you're using for the event, especially if the Content Finder (which I assume is the entire reason we're getting a loot system like this) works anything like the LFD system. Something that might also work is letting you choose what to roll as, regardless of the class you're on, but still limit it to one class.

That said, having the rolls work like that for Linkshells and organized groups would be dumb, so we're back to the beginning of my post: add multiple loot systems, let us choose.

[Lordender]

I really see no way around SE not locking you into the class you came for with how the armory system works, if you allow people to roll need on 4 diff sets of gear because "I have all those jobs leveled" we get into the main problem that was WoW before they started to try to fix it in LFD which was a complete cluster fuck problem with people needing on shit that wasent for their classes like Holy Paladins at one point would need on healing mail or some needed on cloth/leather healing loot when they're plate healers.

If they don't do this right it will be terrible to pug anything, its still bad in WoW with idiots needing offspec gear over peoples mains like a tank taking a 2H DPS sword/axe/mace over a DPS char or a DPS char taking tank weps over tanks.