Comments from the Devs

[Gokulo]

Seems to be Dragon Kick from this list:
http://www.daevaofwar.net/index.php?...ob-skills-121/

Yeah, hopefully recast and TP req. won't be too big.

[Corrderio]

I'm still hoping for news on changes to the combo system. Mainly dropping the directional requirement bullsh*t for melee.

[shidobu]

Dragonkick looks baller.

Btw if you haven't already, might wanna re-new your account before they suspend accounts tomorrow.



Soloing and tryting to combo blows, but when ur in parties and there is a "tank" it isn't much of a problem. Doesn't bother me, at least im doing something

[Elcura]

Dragon Kick reminds me a lot of Chun Li lol, some Hasan-shu and SBK motions which look cool.

[Corrderio]

Soloing and tryting to combo blows, but when ur in parties and there is a "tank" it isn't much of a problem. Doesn't bother me, at least im doing something

Yeah, but in some fights (moogle) it is annoying when the target is on you and due to their size it's easy to overshoot your direction and manage to do a complete 180 or something when you're trying to combo. I don't mind bonuses from hitting them from certain sides, but that being a requirement to combo was a pretty bad idea.

[Spider-Dan]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post506046

Status Ailment Spells and Instant Cast Spells
For casting classes, we will be allocating status ailment spells to each class.
They will be given debuff spells ranging from the core: sleep, paralyze, bind, charm, and heavy to spells that will lower enemy’s stats and resistance to magic.
(We are also planning to add a lot of spells to the currently existing classes at the time of 2.0.)

Charm, eh?

[Raldo]

Yeah, I was pretty surprised that was listed and not petrify.

[TacoTaru]

Esuna has an interesting effect. I figured it would be more like XI/previous FF-titles, but enemy debuffs on players doesn't seem to be that big of a deal atm (granted I still haven't done Moogle, so I don't know if it's different in that fight).

[Lucavi]

I think Yoshi's post on PVP is hilariously elementary, and only further serves to show just how limited not only the engine that powers XIV is, but how limited the minds of SE's developers are. Take, for instance, the Mage vs. Paladin mock-fight he wrote. Those were the same tired tactics of XI. He described that fight under the observation that the paladin had no ways to close the distance, short of trundling ahead to attempt to catch up to a target that is, realistically, moving at the same speed as him. Perhaps MMO PVP mage vs. tank fights worked like this back in 2003 or earlier, but no longer. I think Yoshi needs to take a look at the new crop of MMOs, where a tank has plenty of ways to close distance quickly or instantly, and begin the mini-game of interrupting/silencing mages. Lets take a look at a few "new age" abilities that the SE crew has no idea about, apparently:

1) Charge/Intercept/Bull-rush/ect., from WoW/Rift/many other MMOs. An instant ability on a decent cooldown that allows a meaty warrior to close the gap on another opponent. Often times, the ability can be upgraded to include snares, roots, stuns, or interrupts on "hit", but rarely does the ability do any actual damage. SE has never incorporated a move anywhere near this, and yet this is one of the most basic abilities that a warrior/tank class has in a MMO. Not so, with SE.

2) Riftwalk/Teleport/ect. From Rift/many other MMOs. An ability that again, allows a melee attacker to instantly close the gap on an opponent. Sometimes this can be talented to create a small AOE silence, usually based on the lore of the game. Again, nothing like it in an SE product, as it would probably shatter what fragile code SE has in place. You'd also have to worry about clipping, detection, and all kinds of issues.

Now that we've seen what the warrior can do to get in on the mage, how can the mage withstand the attacks or get away? In SE products, a mage can't do very much while someone is in their face unless they already have buffs up. A stun, followed by a sleep or a bind usually constitutes the full range of options a mage has, but in other MMOs, these elementary abilities only scratch the surface. I won't (and don't have to) get into all of the myriad of abilities, but I'll touch over a few interesting ones.

1) Teleport: A simple spell that allows the mage to teleport some distance away, to relative safety. Usually can be upgraded to allow for an immunity or resistance to snares upon activation, or some other sneaky option. This gets the mage out of harm's way for a brief moment, usually allowing for the mage to either restart the battle or head to other allies for help. Nothing like it in either XI or XIV, or any other FF, really.

2) PVP-Based Circles: The mage places a circle on the ground, and as long as the mage stands within the circle, they gain some kind of buff that typically affords them a mixture of melee resistance and interrupt resistance. This one is self-explanatory; the mage becomes an immobile cannon, guaranteeing that the mage will take damage from the opponent, but will also be able to dish it out; basically a magical version of trading blows with a warrior. This can normally be upgraded with all kinds of perks, from MP restoration from critical hits, to life restoration on kills, to neigh-invulnerability to interrupts. If not properly balanced, this kind of ability can swing the balance of PVP toward the mage, so careful consideration is usually taken to keep it relatively balanced.

3) A fan favorite, Mirror Image: Somtimes a mixture of both of the above, other times not. The mage splits into multiple copies of itself, sometimes after a brief "vanishing", or an unlocking of a melee's target on the mage. The mage can then overwhelm the melee with many versions of itself, or can simply get away while the melee is forced to deal with the copies. This can be upgraded, sometimes, to having the copies perform the exact same spell, or a similar range of spells to the mage itself. Self-explanatory again; this is a high-level ability that allows for a lot of mind-games and options for the mage. They can stay and fight, and try to burn the target down, or they can run away to reinforcements, using the images for cover. When Mirror Image first came out in WoW, it really sparked a new interest in mage tactics in PVP (not that mages were ever truly terrible). Nothing like in any SE product.

Obviously he only touched mage vs. tank, and there are far more skills in other games for both mages and tanks, not to mention all of the other class matchups and their abilities.

TLDR: clearly, XIV, and by extension, SE, has a long, LONG way to go before they can consider themselves ready to have any sort of meaningful, skill-based PVP in their games. Not only do they have to fix the ability delay, combat engine, hit-detection, and a host of other engine problems, but they then have to figure out just how to escape the suffocating presence of "FF experience", which does not lend itself well to MMO PVP. The days of a black mage only being able to use "classic" FF spells in a PVP setting have to be long, long gone, or PVP will never catch on as more than a fleeting event to do whilst bored or when people are actually wanting to play.

And this comes from a former-hardcore fan of Ballista, and one of the best.

[Corrderio]

Or a simple reduction in movement speed would work to.

[Raldo]

Sadly, I don't think we'll see teleports until they allow (or force) a more overhead zoomed out view than the game currently allows. It is very disorienting (to me, anyway) to use abilities like that if the camera is very close behind your character. Not to mention the current camera makes it nearly impossible to select a teleport point away from your pursuer while still keeping track of them to target spells on them. I hate the camera in FFXI/FFXIV -- I always have it zoomed out at the max distance allowed.

I would love to see any of the stuff you listed, so long as it was implemented well.

[Grey Jorildyn]

PvP simply has no place in a game without faction-based conflict. What would be my reason for fighting someone? I can understand the duel concept, but at a certain place (like the coliseum). Other than that I'm not sure.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Esuna has an interesting effect. I figured it would be more like XI/previous FF-titles, but enemy debuffs on players doesn't seem to be that big of a deal atm (granted I still haven't done Moogle, so I don't know if it's different in that fight).

Keep in mind that it's not drawing from SE's class reform list here
(Whm Mag 1) which just has the more broad "removes an enfeebling effect".
Removing THF's petrify in Moogle fight makes that mob almost a complete joke. Can't think of other great examples. Maybe GB's Sonorous Blast?

I'm getting better at cheating the combo system's directionals when solo / tanking, but I hate the randomness element of "oh you weren't there yet / too far stupid". But that's more or a server lag complaint.

PvP simply has no place in a game without faction-based conflict. What would be my reason for fighting someone? I can understand the duel concept, but at a certain place (like the coliseum). Other than that I'm not sure.

Grand Company paintball-style affair? Free company stuff? LS warfare? There's all sorts of lore reasons they could just shoehorn in. Training exercises even.

[Lucavi]

Or a simple reduction in movement speed would work to.

Not for anyone who would be buying the MMO for its PVP content. You're thinking like SE, though; good job. Perform the smallest amount of work and hope that nobody notices.

[Corrderio]

I'm not a huge PVPer so I never tried it in other MMOs. Though yeah it is pretty lazy I suppose.

[Lucavi]

Not to slight you, but my post was only directed to people with PVP experience in a multitude of current-gen MMOs. I should have made that a bit more clear.

[Corrderio]

I know, but I do agree with you the excuse for movement = cancel is poor.

[Lucavi]

My issue isn't so much with movement = cancel, because that exists in many games. My issue is with his tired method of thinking in terms of PVP. He's looking at it as if every fight is plays out the same way with the tank puttering towards a mage, and a mage casting the same bind/sleep spell, followed by the same painful nuke. Perhaps PVP battles work liked like that in XI, but that was because of many, many terrible concepts that just did not work for interesting PVP. Now he's talking about them in XIV as if the game will once again only be a prettier version of XI. It shows that, despite his supposed "pedigree" in playing other MMOs, he's learned nothing from them in terms of PVP.

His words tell a lot, especially as we haven't really seen or heard much of anything about PVP in this game. Its a pretty scary thought for someone like me, who enjoyed ballista for what it was, but certainly knows that it can't even be mentioned in the same sentence as other game's PVP.

SE shouldn't be worrying about plot or anything else when it comes to PVP until they figure out just what exactly PVP means, and what people expect from it.

[Alkar]

Hmm, where does that list come from? I don't see why WHM would get a spell to remove weakness when their Raise spell doesn't give any.

[Draylo]

FF must stick to tradition, blm needs those classic spells.