Comments from the Devs

[Burningthought]

You'll just have to wait for them user-made UI widgets... I just hope people with some actual typo/graphical talent work on them...

Oh shit son. I forgot about the whole user made UI stuff. Looks like i'll have it by this time next year. Fuck if they don't do it, I will. I'll make it look perty.

[Lordender]

Jobs are a selling point for Final Fantasy, especially a game like this.

Because trying to balance 20 jobs worked so well for them in XI, lol. Some jobs should have never been put into that game and I think if SE had a do-over they would agree. The fact theres so many jobs in XI just made the game impossible to make sure all of them have a place in endgame content and proc's are really terrible in the grandscheme of things.

[Alkar]

Um... the WHM being on their job doesn't mean everyone will. We don't even know yet how effective jobs will be in every case.

Explain to me why you wouldn't be on your job exactly. In a situation where you need a dedicated healer you will also need a dedicated tank and DDs might as well go all out. Unless you're holding them back to have more Raises but that's what Chainspell is there for.

[Cichy]

Because trying to balance 20 jobs worked so well for them in XI, lol. Some jobs should have never been put into that game and I think if SE had a do-over they would agree.

I personally always treated some of those jobs as a gimmick or something to do for fun. I had my endgame jobs like PLD and my fun jobs like DRG. There were quite a few people who were content with just messing around on jobs like PUP and dint whine about balance in my experience. Personally I loved the number of jobs in XI and would like to see them in this game even if they are not balanced for everything. Balancing ship sailed long time ago from SE and it's yet to be spotted.

[Seravi Edalborez]

Explain to me why you wouldn't be on your job exactly. In a situation where you need a dedicated healer you will also need a dedicated tank and DDs might as well go all out. Unless you're holding them back to have more Raises but that's what Chainspell is there for.

New Chainspell will only eliminate cast time, not recast. Locking into a job means (I guess) losing out on self-healing too; DRG and WAR for example now have a completely useless MP bar, and BRD only has songs/Decoy.

I mean I guess if the fight hinges on the dedicated DPS being able to self-heal you have other issues, but versatility = flexibility.

[Corrderio]

Quality design is a selling point for any company. I figure XIV would have sold a lot more had it actually been good than being shitty with classes/jobs in it.

The official forums are awesome.

Sadly, most people will pay for this shit just because it will have Dragoons, Monks, Paladins, etc. soon despite SE can't balance worth shit.

It's still pathetic that after 20+ years, SE still doesn't know what balance is.

[Draylo]

Because trying to balance 20 jobs worked so well for them in XI, lol. Some jobs should have never been put into that game and I think if SE had a do-over they would agree. The fact theres so many jobs in XI just made the game impossible to make sure all of them have a place in endgame content and proc's are really terrible in the grandscheme of things.

I guess I'm glad you don't work for FFXIV and your opinion doesn't matter to them. People will want more jobs in the game as it IS a selling point, just like dragons and all that other final fantasy related stuff. All these people are putting on an act when they seem to want it like WoW where there is a limited number of classes and you aren't able to change jobs. You don't give FFXI the credit it deserves, each job has a place for a large variety of content. You don't have to balance every single one for every single event when the player is able to job change.

[Lucavi]

Sadly, most people will pay for this shit just because it will have Dragoons, Monks, Paladins, etc. soon despite SE can't balance worth shit.

It's still pathetic that after 20+ years, SE still doesn't know what balance is.

When you say "most people", are you talking about the 100k+ subs that SE had in its prime? You really think SE's going to be happy with that, given that Star Wars and Rift recently broke 1 mil subs within their first month of launching?

I mean, if the discussion we're having is about SE managing to just break even ground with their last MMO entry, and not push to be an excellent, high-selling, relevant MMO, then I guess I'm in the wrong place. I hadn't banked on people still considering XI's 100k+ subs as any sort of benchmark, especially after WoW took a steaming dump on those numbers in no time flat.

The "most people" I'd like to think about, IE. the millions of potential MMO customers, would not "pay for this shit just because it will have Dragoons, Monks, Paladins, ect. soon despite SE can't balance worth shit." Those "most people" will continue doing what they're currently doing; staying the fuck away from this trainwreck of a game and company. If, however, when you say "most people", you're speaking about anyone who bought XIV previously and just can't wait to come back, then yes, I suppose you're correct.

@Draylo: I give XI credit for being a highly successful MMO in a different age of MMOs. An age where Everquest was king, and the only real other options were either old games like Ultima Online, or shit games like The Matrix Online. Then WoW came along and completely flipped the MMO world on its head. To give XI credit for anything related to subscriptions in a post-WoW world is akin to giving spit credit for being somewhat wet, when related to the ocean itself. Or, are you going to tell me that I should be praising XI's amazing PVP system that completely revolutionized the competitive MMO scene, its amazing plot, which still manages to capture millions of fans and their money each month, simply because they can't wait to read the next saga (has there even BEEN a saga since CoP? Did ToAU's storyline count as a saga? I completed the entire thing and the only cool part I recall is the serpent generals). Perhaps we should be praising XI for its engrossing, tightly-responsive battle system that revolutionized the roles of classes and strengthened the bond of party play? What, exactly?

How can I give XIV any credit when, years later and post-XI and post-WoW (and, to be fair, post-modern failures like War, AoC, ect.), not only has it failed to attain anything close to WoW's numbers, or anywhere close to breaking monthly subscription records like Rift and Star Wars, but it failed to even come close to XI's numbers. Just what is there to be proud of, Draylo?

Please explain this to me.

[Charismatic]

Explain to me why you wouldn't be on your job exactly. In a situation where you need a dedicated healer you will also need a dedicated tank and DDs might as well go all out. Unless you're holding them back to have more Raises but that's what Chainspell is there for.

Yeah, lets talk about shit we know jack shit about. How the fuck should I know why or why not someone wouldn't be on their job... we haven't even gotten to play them yet. There may or may not be situations in which it is more useful to be on your class than your job. (though in the case of CNJ, assuming all class abilities are retained... I see little reason to ever not be white mage as that class at this point but that certainly does not apply to all classes)
Nobody fucking knows... I know it's probably hard for you but stop being stupid.

[Draylo]

You should realize that the Final Fantasy series has a niche gamerbase in the first place. Nobody wants to play another FPS or another MMO like WoW, they wanna play Final Fantasy. Your numbers are also off, SE themselves released a blurb on the front of playonline about how they had reached 1m+ subscribers, 100k+ during prime is extremely low lol. Yeah, it's no surprise that FF doesn't sell as well as the next FPS meathead MMO/game, I bet Star Wars loses its subscribers just like Rift did when they realize its the same shit WoW with a different skin. I'm glad FF has done it different and I appreciate that as do most of its fans. FFXI also had some of the best cutscenes/story involvement out of any MMO out there. WoW can't hold a candle to that.

[Siatdiat]

You should realize that the Final Fantasy series has a niche gamerbase in the first place. Nobody wants to play another FPS or another MMO like WoW, they wanna play Final Fantasy. Your numbers are also off, SE themselves released a blurb on the front of playonline about how they had reached 1m+ subscribers, 100k+ during prime is extremely low lol. Yeah, it's no surprise that FF doesn't sell as well as the next FPS meathead MMO/game, I bet Star Wars loses its subscribers just like Rift did when they realize its the same shit WoW with a different skin. I'm glad FF has done it different and I appreciate that as do most of its fans. FFXI also had some of the best cutscenes/story involvement out of any MMO out there. WoW can't hold a candle to that.

Just wanted to toss out there that everyone I know still playing FFXI has 2 or 3 accounts, literally all of them.

In general though, who pays attention to Draylo? This entire paragraph all I see is the defense of FFXI having no players, calling it a niche game which is a special way of saying that it sucks and no one wants to play but to make the few who do play it feel like a special elite class of player, elite for being patient and playing gear collection pokemon or something.

To say that FF has some of the best story development is kind of silly, since the story has been some shitty "a wizard did it" type bullshit for a long ass time now. WotG to me was crap, and the cut scenes were excessively long and 75% felt like bullshit for me to watch. I realize at one time the story was pretty exciting, but its just gone down hill and will probably continue to to do so. But defending FFXI as a game for having the best story.... thats gotta be a joke.

Being popular doesn't always mean something is some meathead bro shit either, so its an incredibly weak argument about anything to immediately just call it meathead based on its popularity.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I'll never believe FFXI had 1million unique subscribers. 1 out of 3 people I knew had a second account and in no way should that count. Pretty sure they had 1mil active subs at some point, but probably only about 750k uniques tops. Would like to see that though cuz perhaps I'm wrong (and I wouldn't care even if I was).

[Draylo]

Just wanted to toss out there that everyone I know still playing FFXI has 2 or 3 accounts, literally all of them.

In general though, who pays attention to Draylo? This entire paragraph all I see is the defense of FFXI having no players, calling it a niche game which is a special way of saying that it sucks and no one wants to play but to make the few who do play it feel like a special elite class of player, elite for being patient and playing gear collection pokemon or something.

To say that FF has some of the best story development is kind of silly, since the story has been some shitty "a wizard did it" type bullshit for a long ass time now. WotG to me was crap, and the cut scenes were excessively long and 75% felt like bullshit for me to watch. I realize at one time the story was pretty exciting, but its just gone down hill and will probably continue to to do so. But defending FFXI as a game for having the best story.... thats gotta be a joke.

Being popular doesn't always mean something is some meathead bro shit either, so its an incredibly weak argument about anything to immediately just call it meathead based on its popularity.

Is that suppose to hurt my feelings? Obviously you pay attention if you responded to me, don't feel bad though I know my charm is hard to resist.

You sound like a butthurt ex-FFXI player and a now meathead WoW fanatic, you aren't worth my time. The thread isn't even about FFXI it's about FFXIV, they are heading in the right direction with multiple jobs, as its what the community wanted when there were only those base shit classes (including crafters as a damn class).

I'll never believe FFXI had 1million unique subscribers. 1 out of 3 people I knew had a second account and in no way should that count. Pretty sure they had 1mil active subs at some point, but probably only about 750k uniques tops. Would like to see that though cuz perhaps I'm wrong (and I wouldn't care even if I was).

That may be, but it wasn't around 100k that is for sure.

[Ambrosia]

Yeah the last statement where he said: How can I give XIV credit when... Just what is there to be proud of? I know he gave examples of FFXI, but maybe he meant it as ---> Just what is there to be proud of FFXIV? (To be more specific?) He did say he gave credit for FFXI being a successful MMO in its time.

[Corrderio]

@Lucavi, I guess that was bad wording. Instead of "most people" I should have said "diehard fanboys" or something along those lines.

[Draylo]

Oh there is nothing to be proud of about FFXIV, the game is terrible lol, but it will get better I believe.

[Siatdiat]

Is that suppose to hurt my feelings? Obviously you pay attention if you responded to me, don't feel bad though I know my charm is hard to resist.

You sound like a butthurt ex-FFXI player and a now meathead WoW fanatic, you aren't worth my time. The thread isn't even about FFXI it's about FFXIV, they are heading in the right direction with multiple jobs, as its what the community wanted when there were only those base shit classes (including crafters as a damn class).

If you get your feelings hurt on an online forum that is your own problem.

Actually I don't play WoW. Still don't get why the word meathead automatically comes up when you mention it though. I played WoW in the beginning. I actually play FFXI just because FFXI is an easy game to just spend time and master or complete content available. I have an FFXIV account too, but probably not going to mess with my MRD anymore until 2.0 unless something great comes up. I may jump on for 1.21 and try out WAR and see how that goes, but that isn't that likely. There is a big difference between 7 classes in FFXIV, and 20 jobs in FFXI. Despite that, a company that has an understanding of their own game can make a valid use for all classes to be involved in any content, and can do it with a system better than proccing NMs.

One thing I don't get is why they said classes would be for solo, and jobs for grouping, but on classes if you are solo, there are ws that you can't use. If they are for soloing then why does current design make it either impossible or incredibly difficult to chain skills together when solo on a class? As for whether they can balance the classes and jobs now in game, and any future ones added, time will tell but those of us who know what SE has done in the past understand it isnt likely to happen. Regardless of being able to change jobs, they need to balance out jobs value in content.

[Lucavi]

You should realize that the Final Fantasy series has a niche gamerbase in the first place. Nobody wants to play another FPS or another MMO like WoW, they wanna play Final Fantasy. Your numbers are also off, SE themselves released a blurb on the front of playonline about how they had reached 1m+ subscribers, 100k+ during prime is extremely low lol. Yeah, it's no surprise that FF doesn't sell as well as the next FPS meathead MMO/game, I bet Star Wars loses its subscribers just like Rift did when they realize its the same shit WoW with a different skin. I'm glad FF has done it different and I appreciate that as do most of its fans. FFXI also had some of the best cutscenes/story involvement out of any MMO out there. WoW can't hold a candle to that.

I can't consider FF a "niche" market, considering the massive worldwide sales the company has enjoyed, just like Blizzard, and I can't consider SE's online series as a "niche" market, considering that they've dropped massive bank into funding both games, have never once stated that they were anything close to a niche market (which is, for all intents and purposes for a major company, essentially giving up before the race even starts). Your excuse is flimsy, your arguments are weak, and if left to you, this game would never drag itself out of the quagmire it is currently in. You're the worst kind of fan for SE; a status quo fan that will never push the company to strive for any sort of competitiveness, instead happy to praise what little enjoyment there is to be found within the game compared to what it could potentially be.

I'm surprised I'm even responding; you were the exact same way a year and a half ago when those of us with sense were complaining in the alpha and beta phases. This will be my last response to you; holding a "discussion" with someone who refuses to budge is foolhardy.

@Cor: Not a problem. I figured that's what you meant, but I'm not one to put words in your mouth.

@Amb: You nailed my sentiment perfectly. When there is something to be proud of XIV about, I will be proud of it. I was proud of many of XI's accomplishments - I wouldn't have played, much less enjoyed the game if I wasn't - but to see such regression, not only in the genre as a whole, but within SE's own online series, was flabbergasting to say the least, and disgraceful to say the most. What innovations has it brought to the fold? Where has it advanced, refined, or even championed the MMO genre as a whole? If this were a United Nations Summit, and XIV had a place, what would it bring to the table? XI, WoW, Rift, SW; hell, even LotR (interesting mechanics, championing a workable FTP system) and AOC (undoubtedly the best graphics engine for its time, showing that DX10 technology was feasible in a MMO) brought things to the table, despite not being known as massive successes.

This isn't some "We get it: you hate XIV and love everything else" ploy; that line of posting is weak and self-destructive, offering nothing to the table. I've stated plenty of times that I will be more than happy to pay when there is a product worth paying for, and if I wasn't here and on the official forums, keeping tabs of the game's progress and discussing with those who still play, then you could say I have no interest in the game. Save your breath, and your fingers, Draylo, if that was going to be your next half-witted response.

[Draylo]

What game are you even talking about at this point? I agree that FFXIV is terrible, I don't agree that a job system, with multiple jobs, is a bad idea. You don't even know how they plan to go about them or how they will be able to balance them. The developer painting a picture of a standard mage vs melee isn't tell all about their plans. FYI, a year and a half ago I was just against how things were turning out for FFXIV as everyone else.

[Corrderio]

Speaking of this game's potential, I wonder how serious SE is on taking feedback outside of the official forums.