Comments from the Devs

[Grey Jorildyn]

Doesn't matter if it's taken out if the content they put in later has the same exact problems.

[TacoTaru]

Primal fights are staying in the game, but may not be exactly the same as they are know is what he said iirc.

[Lucavi]

Dint Yoshi say also that fights like Ifrit and Moogle will be taken out later? I imagine same thing will happen with Darkhold also. So shit we've seen is just temporary. Yeah I would like more content and stuff right now but Yoshi has to look at a big picture and he's the only one that knows where this is going.

When have you ever seen a "superior" fight to what's currently in game, as made by SE? I have not, and that includes what was in XI.

@SD: The second that a particular class or group of classes get shafted and benched for end-game content (ANY END-GAME CONTENT, REGARDLESS OF DIFFICULTY), you have a balance problem. Its simple, and you're a fool trying to extract your magical response as a "trap" that no one is going to fall for. It doesn't matter how easy or hard it is; if the hardest fight in XIV's end-game is killing a single beastman, and the population views Pug as so shitty that they wouldn't bring a pug along to the fight, and instead, brings nothing but Archers, you have a balance problem.

Please stop being so ignorant. I know you can do better than this, or, rather, you used to be able to do better than this. You were smarter during your staunch defense of the Arrowburn days.

[miokomioko]

Yeah, there's not a whole lot of actual class imbalance, it's that the content was designed in a (poor) way that made a single class a painfully obvious choice. MRD/PGL don't get picked for Ifrit because they eat a lot of Sears to be in melee range, ARC doesn't get picked for Ifrit because their animation locks. They aren't really many differences in damage output, it's the actual content inhibiting their usefulness and because there is so little content, one or two events make a big difference in the community. LNC/PGL/MRD get screwed on Moogle because ARC has a definite advantage in such a chaotic and kited battle full of AoEs (combo requirements/shadowbind/ranged attacks).

I try to take PGL into fights when I can so I can actually gauge whether the class actually sucks or not, and I'm finding that if there isn't constant magic AoEs and constant kiting going on (ifrit/moogles), PGL damage output is pretty impressive when they get the opportunity to position themselves. Fists of Earth/Fire make for some hefty white-damage on top of actually strong combos that people generally have no idea exist (Pounce > Demolish > Howling Fist). Not to mention they blind/stun/slow targets pretty damn consistently while evading the occasional physical AoE.

I know, lolDarkhold, but PGL also shines in the Batraal fight since 1.20.

[Spider-Dan]

The second that a particular class or group of classes get shafted and benched for end-game content (ANY END-GAME CONTENT, REGARDLESS OF DIFFICULTY), you have a balance problem.

If every job is capable of easily winning every encounter in the game, how is there a balance problem? The only solution to what you are calling a "balance" problem is for all jobs to be equally popular, which is a pipe dream.

It doesn't matter how easy or hard it is; if the hardest fight in XIV's end-game is killing a single beastman, and the population views Pug as so shitty that they wouldn't bring a pug along to the fight, and instead, brings nothing but Archers, you have a balance problem.

What you're saying is that if PGL is exactly as capable (or even more effective!) than ARC, but people want to bring ARC anyway (if due to nothing other than inertia), that's a balance problem. That's idiotic.

The only way to combat that kind of "balance" problem (read: community perception) is extremely ham-fisted over-the-top nerfs/buffs. You can see two amazing examples of this in the '05 RNG nerf and the '07 2h buff.

Please stop being so ignorant. I know you can do better than this, or, rather, you used to be able to do better than this. You were smarter during your staunch defense of the Arrowburn days.

I love how you continue to fester over that whole 15 months that RNG was in XI's spotlight, while completely dismissing the 2.5 years that DRG was enjoying 2h dominance (and that's without even counting pentaspam days).

How many years will it take before you get over your DRG short-man's complex?

[Lucavi]

Oh, Jesus. Hello strawman. So what, are you advocating for some MMO in which every fight is painstakingly easy? That way people, in theory, should never have any qualms about bringing any class? Is that your genius plan? I'm trying to think of whether any MMOs work like that. Then, in the same breath, you say that Rngs shouldn't have been nerfed in 05'. I think we're done here.

Point out a paid, popular, mainstream MMO in which every fight is stupid easy (for every class) and I'll concede your point. Thankfully, I'll never have to, because its an impossibility. A MMO with easy fights is a dead MMO.

[xopher]

I like how people think their arguments over games like this actually mean something. Maybe if people spent this effort on politics the world would be a better place.

[Spider-Dan]

Oh, Jesus. Hello strawman. So what, are you advocating for some MMO in which every fight is painstakingly easy?

Strawman, indeed.

I am not talking about hypothetical MMOs. I am saying that YOU YOURSELF ARE COMPLAINING about all the FF fights being easy, mindless, and simplistic... at the same time YOU YOURSELF ARE COMPLAINING about "balance issues" in the same games.

If SE make the fights harder to where it isn't easy for every class to do everything (addressing one of your complaints), what do you suppose will be the result? The immediate response will be that people like you start screaming even louder about "balance issues"; given that you are already whining about balance when you concede that everyone can do everything right now, this much is certain.

Then, in the same breath, you say that Rngs shouldn't have been nerfed in 05'.

No, Einstein. I'm saying that you endlessly bitch about the shaft DRG supposedly got in XI, when DRG had a period of prominence (in the 75 era) that was as-long-or-longer than any job not named WAR. And SE is supposed to listen to you about balance? Give me a break.

[Cichy]

I like how people think their arguments over games like this actually mean something. Maybe if people spent this effort on politics the world would be a better place.

From reading this thread at this point I dont know if some of those people enjoy any MMO at all and just come here to bitch. Guildwars 2 gonna be the second coming of Jesus I guess...

[Raldo]

I like how people think their arguments over games like this actually mean something. Maybe if people spent this effort on politics the world would be a better place.

I think politics are as fucked up as they are because of this kind of arguing actually. I'm not sure the two sides of this current argument realize how close their opinions really are. One says the problem is the community, one says the problem is the developers, but in the end they're referring to the same issue, just different people to blame. Wow, after saying that this really does sound like politics!

[Lucavi]

I like how people think their arguments over games like this actually mean something. Maybe if people spent this effort on politics the world would be a better place.

Are you covering the Republican Primaries? They're going full steam over there.

@SD: I wasn't talking about XI endgame fights being easy; I was talking about them being mechanically brain-dead on two fronts:

1) The fights revolved around keeping shadows up and stunning, and:
2) Once people figured out that the fights revolved around keeping shadows up and stunning, everyone else was free to burn down the mobs.

The fights are simplistic when you have the perfect shadow-sucking tanks up and a shit ton of a single job to burn the mob down. Even if those two criteria are met, and as such, the fight becomes "easy", its not like every job can meet said criteria, hence the imbalanced game. A bunch of nins blink tanking with rdm/whm support was the foundation, and the top-tier DD jobs were the dynamite. You couldn't swap those Rngs and Sams out for Bsts, because Bst was shit compared to Rng and Sam. Hence the imbalance. You couldn't swap out those mnks and chain-spelling drks for Drgs and Pups. Hence the imbalance. Its pretty simple logic.

SE's encounters were simplistic and limited, and I had originally thought it was all because of the engine. But then XIV came out and we saw the same damned thing, with a "brand new engine". What else could it be but shitty ideas?

[Kaylia]

just wanna point out it takes nearly less than a week to get a 50 class if your dedicated
there is no excuse to not have multiple 50's in this shitty game atm, when there is not much content keeping you busy.
Your either lvling dow or doing 1 of 3 events (moogles,ifrit,darkhold). Sitting around complaining that you can't do anything is just retarded when you have the means to lvl in this game solo. Yea leves suck but its better than nothing. And they are better now than they have ever been.

I had to use all my willpower to finish leveling a single class in FFXIV. I'm not putting myself through this shit again unless they actually make it fun and diversified

If WoW's balance is semi-ideal, and even endgame players in that game feel the need to maintain multiple classes, why should FF even aim for single-class solutions?

You still don't get it? Your statement was wrong because there is no correlation between the "need to balance every classes to reasonable level" and the "class system/alt". It's not that one is "better" than other, both can work given a proper design, both can be balanced and both should be balanced.

Where in my post did I ever say that "FF should aim for a single-class solution"? Nowhere.

[Fievel]

I had to use all my willpower to finish leveling a single class in FFXIV. I'm not putting myself through this shit again unless they actually make it fun and diversified

All your willpower? I'm not going to join in on this pointless argument that you guys love to have over and over, but I honestly want to know how it can take "all your willpower". Getting a job to 50 takes no time at all if you just make a PT, and if you aren't completely anti-social you can make a friend who can just PL you aswell.

With a PL you can get 50 in a few days..

Edit: And I'm speaking casually, if you go at it hardcore you can probably do it in 1-2 days.

[miokomioko]

It's just his way of saying "this game sucks" without being too obvious.

[Kaylia]

Doesn't make it any less boring. I already spent over 80 hours in the same 3 leves locations...I would rather do something else of my times that will leave me with better memory.

It's just his way of saying "this game sucks" without being too obvious.

It would be difficult to make it more obvious. Leveling was terrible when I started playing, and it's still terrible. It doesnt matter if you spend 20 hours 40 hours or 100 hours, that kind of gameplay can hardly be considered a "game". It's slow, repetitive and awkward.

I was able to hit level to 50 because there was story misions and quests to unlock the first time, but now that they are all done, I'm not doing this again.

[Raldo]

Here's another interesting post by the localization team: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...uct#post512541

Not as eye-opening as some of their posts, but I found the fact that the EN teams had some say in the names of monster moves (and probably other things) to be interesting.

[shidobu]

Here's another interesting post by the localization team: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...uct#post512541

The devs post made me smile, and i have no clue why

[Fievel]

Doesn't make it any less boring. I already spent over 80 hours in the same 3 leves locations...I would rather do something else of my times that will leave me with better memory.



It would be difficult to make it more obvious. Leveling was terrible when I started playing, and it's still terrible. It doesnt matter if you spend 20 hours 40 hours or 100 hours, that kind of gameplay can hardly be considered a "game". It's slow, repetitive and awkward.

I was able to hit level to 50 because there was story misions and quests to unlock the first time, but now that they are all done, I'm not doing this again.

Make an EXP PT...

[Cichy]

Doesn't make it any less boring. I already spent over 80 hours in the same 3 leves locations...I would rather do something else of my times that will leave me with better memory.



It would be difficult to make it more obvious. Leveling was terrible when I started playing, and it's still terrible. It doesnt matter if you spend 20 hours 40 hours or 100 hours, that kind of gameplay can hardly be considered a "game". It's slow, repetitive and awkward.

I was able to hit level to 50 because there was story misions and quests to unlock the first time, but now that they are all done, I'm not doing this again.

I think you're over exaggerating a bit. It's not that terrible anymore, it's just finding proper groups that's terrible. I've played Rift and Tera while waiting for this game to get better and grind hasn't been pleasant in any of them. With combos, new abilities, etc it's actually pretty alright imo. That's assuming you can find a group.

[Grey Jorildyn]

It is boring, and many players with all 50s may find that hard to grasp since we got all our dow/m there exploiting leve fails. I however, as one of those weirdos who loves solo grind, can understand the sentiment.

That aside, grinding is boring to the casual player who wants to get online and actually feel like they're making progress in an hour or two while also learning about the world and feeling like they have a purpose. The latter part of that statement answers the 'why?' question. This is what we severely lack in XIV (and in XI too).

Getting in an exp party and grinding some mobs for an hour or two then moving to another hunting ground to do the same is lame. Where's the purpose and character development there? WHY am I slaying mobs that are by all rights minding their own damn business until I arrived and started fucking up their christmas? There's simply no direction to grinding and people like direction.

EXP is a meta-game reason to grind. There ought to be a developmental reason for it provided by the game's story and/or the inherent conflict in the world. It could be as simple as "go kill 200 amal'ja today to make the world a safer place", but we don't even have those kindsa things. Everything is just splashed on the map like the worst theme park you've ever seen.