Comments from the Devs

[Fievel]

Really? I feel sorry for them if he still have his word to say...

He finished taking everybody to lv99 then gimped every single thing he could to make it as if they were still lv75.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Is that really what happened?

[Lordender]

Is that really what happened?

Yep, he also went back to bad drop rates, terrible grinds, it is like 2006 all over again, even events went from needing like 3-6 people(abyssea) to needing lots of people for voidwatch and next thing is going to be Legion thats 18-36 players. Lots of nerfs happened recently as well, the new thing with XI is "Balance" its the new "we'll take that back to japan with us" meme they've been on for the past 8 or so months.

Ever since the team switch to XIV happened XI started to go way down hill again for whatever reason, level 95-99 is so laughable, its like they didn't even try.

[miokomioko]

It's just a bummer how obvious the whole RAISING THE LEVEL CAP OMG was ultimately a fat marketing ploy. After he bops everyone back down to size with the nerf bat, they would have had the same effect on the game as if each job had a few new questable abilities/spells. God forbid any old content be easier after leveling to fucking NINETY NINE.

Anyhow, wrong section. Tanaka is out ruining something besides this, thank god.

[Draylo]

All old content is easier at 99... and a good majority of it is soloable that was otherwise unable to be. There are a lot of benefits to being 99 now, that much is completely obvious to anyone that still plays FFXI. The new content *should* be harder for a 99, I don't necessarily feel they should have went back to 18+ groups (only larger groups like 12ish), but most things are done in shouts anyway now so it won't be long before a team up is done like Ein back in the day, as most people are secluded in low man shells since Abyssea.

Not trying to start FFXI debates, but at least state the facts and not let your hate for the game change it.

[Spider-Dan]

That's not true. It's entirely up to them to decide the rate at which your craft explode. If they wanted to give "standard" spam (with occasional wait on unstable) a 95% rates, they could. They could also make hakutaku eye clusters lv 55 if they wanted people to fail on it.

You're missing the point.

I'm not talking about standard spam; I'm talking about using abilities and manually managing the synth using all your available abilities. Right now, I can pass a LV55 synth easily, every time if I only care about pass/fail and not quality (and I don't even have HotG). That is not at all applicable to XI-style crafting.

A LV55 cluster recipe in this game would be incredibly easy to synth and no one would ever, ever fail it (at LV50); there are too many abilities that can steamroll you to 100% completion. And that's one of the things I like about XIV crafting: if you just want to finish the synth and it's not crazily over your level, using abilities is a free win.

I greatly prefer the current cross-class crafting (where you level other crafts for abilities) to the other style where different synths have arbitrarily assigned subcrafts.

[Kaylia]

You're missing the point.

I'm not talking about standard spam; I'm talking about using abilities and manually managing the synth using all your available abilities. Right now, I can pass a LV55 synth easily, every time if I only care about pass/fail and not quality (and I don't even have HotG). That is not at all applicable to XI-style crafting.

A LV55 cluster recipe in this game would be incredibly easy to synth and no one would ever, ever fail it (at LV50); there are too many abilities that can steamroll you to 100% completion. And that's one of the things I like about XIV crafting: if you just want to finish the synth and it's not crazily over your level, using abilities is a free win.

I greatly prefer the current cross-class crafting (where you level other crafts for abilities) to the other style where different synths have arbitrarily assigned subcrafts.

You're the one who is missing the point. The success rate for NQ is determined by picking the safest options every times, and that choice is evident once you understand the poorly explained mechanics. There is no real decision involved. In the end, the chance of success is entirely determined by a series of random rolls that could be replaced with a single roll with weighted probabilities.

If level 55 doesn't work, then make it 60, or 65. It doesn't matter, you will eventually reach a point where spamming the safest option is going to lead to a chance of success equal to 95%. That's basically what FFXI was. Inversely, they could easily have upped the NQ rate to 100% if you were close to the required level.

The only thing FFXIV system does that you couldn't do in FFXI is decide the NQ:HQ ratio you want, but it's not something that requires a series of step or a minigame. It could easily be done in a single roll. And even then, ffxi did have accessories that would allow you to sacrifice HQ for NQ..you just have more freedom for this in XIV.



Your point about unlocking abilities on multiples classes isn't bad, but to be honest, they could offer you various passive perks that would be just as fun.

[TacoTaru]

Two additional crafting dev responses popped up:

Following up on Yoshida’s post early this morning, there were a few questions that Triairy was able to answer shortly after.

Will any changes be made to the amount of quality decreases when instability occurs?

With the current changes, the chances for the elements to become instable will become extremely low and therefore lower the chances of the element becoming chaotic. As a result, we decided not change the amount of quality reduction.

When Disciples of the Hand abilities are revamped will they retain things like alchemist’s preserve ability: “Most effective for finished items.” It’s pretty hard to understand what this refers to and I’m wondering if this is to be removed.

We are currently aware that it is difficult to understand what falls into these specific categories for abilities. In patch 1.21 this will remain; however, in the future we are looking into getting rid of this all together.

In regards to local leve adjustments, we will be making adjustments to local leves in the future to go along with the recipe changes. However, in patch 1.21, rewards for culinarian and alchemist local leves will change and you will be able to receive the materials for the item you crafted for the leve as a completion reward. We are planning to make similar changes for other classes as well in the following patch.

[Raldo]

In regards to local leve adjustments, we will be making adjustments to local leves in the future to go along with the recipe changes. However, in patch 1.21, rewards for culinarian and alchemist local leves will change and you will be able to receive the materials for the item you crafted for the leve as a completion reward. We are planning to make similar changes for other classes as well in the following patch.

Does this make sense to anyone? The recipe changes already occurred for all but GLD/CUL/ALC, so why are they still using old recipes?

I made that thread and I don't feel the dev quote even answers my question...

Eh, on second thought, that "in the future" thing is probably the answer. How vague and unhelpful.

[TacoTaru]

The way I'm understanding it it means that after 1.21, all of GSM, CUL, ALC's local leves will be their new recipes and the rewards will be materials for those recipes. All other crafting classes will still use old recipes for local leves (as it is currently), and the rewards will also remain the same. In the following patch (1.21a?) local leves for the rest of DoH will be updated to only new recipes and the rewards will be changed as well.

[Corrderio]

Two additional crafting dev responses popped up:

Psyched about the 2nd one. I couldn't be the only one curious about the "most effective for X items" thing.

[Raldo]

Psyched about the 2nd one. I couldn't be the only one curious about the "most effective for X items" thing.

"Most effective for:" usually means that for those types of items it either lasts for an extra turn (4 turns instead of 3) or has less of a chance to fail ("You use [ability] but it fails."). It might also increase general effectiveness, but that's much harder to determine.

Most effective for...
Finished items -> Equipment (and consumable items: food, potions, etc.?)
Mass Production -> Anything that produces more than 1 item for an NQ result
Decorations -> ??? (same as parts, perhaps the subset of parts that doesn't classify as materials?)
Enhanced items -> ??? (I'd assume it's for anything that augments a finished item (Ex: Crab Bow requires an Oak Composite Bow) )
Parts -> Anything that's used in another recipe that's not a finished item
Materials -> ??? (same as parts, perhaps the subset of parts that doesn't classify as decorations?)

I'd agree that they could certainly explain it better, but why would they want to get rid of it altogether?

[Spider-Dan]

You're the one who is missing the point. The success rate for NQ is determined by picking the safest options every times, and that choice is evident once you understand the poorly explained mechanics. There is no real decision involved. In the end, the chance of success is entirely determined by a series of random rolls that could be replaced with a single roll with weighted probabilities.

You have just summarized my point: a single roll with weighted probabilities that are equal to the series of rolls we have now would be indistinguishable from a 0% failure rate.

So if you really believe that XI's system would be exactly the same if you could pass a single-roll synth 10 levels above you every time (NQ, of course) with ~0% failure rate, then sure, I guess it's the same as XIV's? Because that's what we have now.

And for the record: in XI, I can attempt a synth 50 levels below me and still fail. In XIV, I could use solely Bold/Careful Synthesis on a R0 synth and my failure rate would start with at least two zeroes.

[Kaylia]

So if you really believe that XI's system would be exactly the same if you could pass a single-roll synth 10 levels above you every time (NQ, of course) with ~0% failure rate, then sure, I guess it's the same as XIV's? Because that's what we have now.

For the last time, SquareEnix is entirely responsible of the NQ rates, it has nothing to do with the damn minigame. The 95% success in FFXI and the 100% in FFXIV are arbitrary number that could exist with any systems they make up. In FFXI, they decided to be more cruel and made it low, in FFXIV, they made it higher. That's all there is to it.

It's crazy to think that you have any control over NQ unless you believe that making completely retarded decision that goes against your goal are real choices.


Q1: Do you want 0$ or 5$?
Q2: Do you want 0$ or 5$?
Q3: Do you want 0$ or 7$?
Spider-dan: "I love this mini-game, it give me the control to get 17$" every time".

Q1: Do you want 17$?
Spider-dan: "I hate this game for...some reason.


The philosophy for HQ changed a little more, but once again, the minigame itself just give you a false sense of control. In FFXI, it was a static number for NQ and HQ. In FFXIV, you have a static number for NQ that can be sacrificed to increase your HQ %. How much you're willing to sacrifice depends entirely of your tolerance, but it's generally something you decide before you even start the craft.

[Elcura]

I've always felt the control in XIVs crafting system was just an illusion. If XIV's crafting were truly a mini-game, each command would have far more impact and weight, and each synth would require a different approach due to the circumstances.

Of course, a system like that would require thought and planning. XIVs crafting system is lazy and shows what happens when you just stop at the initial concept instead of trying to build it.

[Kaylia]

^
Pretty much.

I'm not sure it would be possible to create such system with a menu based UI however. Min/maxing pretty much destroy any kind of freedom the players might have, and all that is left in the end is a few percentages and the law of average.

Making the minigame skills oriented is an alternative, but it would open it up to botting (ex: fishing minigame in XI) which isn't much of an improvement.

[Spider-Dan]

For the last time, SquareEnix is entirely responsible of the NQ rates, it has nothing to do with the damn minigame. The 95% success in FFXI and the 100% in FFXIV are arbitrary number that could exist with any systems they make up. In FFXI, they decided to be more cruel and made it low, in FFXIV, they made it higher. That's all there is to it.

I'll try once more:

By making a series of rolls that require active decisions (as opposed to, say, mashing enter), SE enables fail-proof crafting without simply eliminating failure altogether.

You say that the decisions are obvious, but that doesn't change the fact that you actually have to select them. This stands in direct contrast to a one-roll system in which you pass/fail the synth in one attempt. In XIV, you can see this directly when you compare using Hasty Hand to using your (clearly obvious) abilities and manually progressing through the craft to 100%.

Now, could SE change the probabilities so that a single-action synth has the same rate of failure as the current multiple-action system? Sure, I guess... but in practice, that would be exactly the same thing as just eliminating the possibility of failure.

So, given that there's no way that SE is going to implement a crafting system in which players can instantly craft items ten levels above their current rank with ~0% failure rate, isn't it better to have a multiple-action system where, with proper cross-classing and intelligent (if linear) usage of actions, you can eliminate failure even on higher-ranked synths?

This is what you are failing to grasp. In a one-shot pass/fail system, they ARE NOT going to give you a ~100% pass rate. It just won't happen. You correctly point out that the decision tree in XIV crafting is extremely straightforward, but the bottom line is that you still have to make those decisions. You have to prioritize which ability you use as they come up. You have to pick when to progress and when to wait, based on the current colors/elemental stability/what have you. Sure, the choices are easy... but you still have to make them. And that balances out the ~100% success rate.

In XI, it doesn't matter how far you are above your synth; you have x% fail rate and there's nothing you can do about it. Hasty Hand works almost exactly the same way, for the same reason.

[Niiro]

It's not balancing anything when the "decision" (lol) making process is so rudimentary and robotic.

Q1: Do you want 0$ or 5$?
Q2: Do you want 0$ or 5$?
Q3: Do you want 0$ or 7$?

Making you input multiple commands in order to feign complexity and depth isn't balance, it's trivial.

[Kaylia]

By making a series of rolls that require active decisions (as opposed to, say, mashing enter), SE enables fail-proof crafting without simply eliminating failure altogether.

You say that the decisions are obvious, but that doesn't change the fact that you actually have to select them. This stands in direct contrast to a one-roll system in which you pass/fail the synth in one attempt. In XIV, you can see this directly when you compare using Hasty Hand to using your (clearly obvious) abilities and manually progressing through the craft to 100%.

This is exactly why so many people fucking hate crafting. Actively completing something trivial isn't fun or rewarding, and people would rather go straight to the meaningful/challenging part.


Crafting in XIV is like an annoying captcha you have to answer. It doesn't stand in the way of bots, but is going to annoys and slow down human with trivial questions.

Now, could SE change the probabilities so that a single-action synth has the same rate of failure as the current multiple-action system? Sure, I guess... but in practice, that would be exactly the same thing as just eliminating the possibility of failure.

Eliminating the possibility of failure for NQ around your level or lower is exactly what they did in XIV. You told me yourself that you had 100% success rates, and I'm certain everyone else does.

This is what you are failing to grasp. In a one-shot pass/fail system, they ARE NOT going to give you a ~100% pass rate. It just won't happen. You correctly point out that the decision tree in XIV crafting is extremely straightforward, but the bottom line is that you still have to make those decisions. You have to prioritize which ability you use as they come up. You have to pick when to progress and when to wait, based on the current colors/elemental stability/what have you. Sure, the choices are easy... but you still have to make them. And that balances out the ~100% success rate.

In XI, it doesn't matter how far you are above your synth; you have x% fail rate and there's nothing you can do about it. Hasty Hand works almost exactly the same way, for the same reason.

It makes absolutely no sense. Most mmo have 100% NQ rates, and there is no reason why they couldn't do it if they wanted.

[TacoTaru]

HOLD ON TO YOUR BUTTS!

You want it? You got it! /blowkiss will become a permanent emote! (However, it will disappear for a short time when the event ends but it will make its grand re-appearance in patch 1.21.)


/blowkiss <3