Comments from the Devs

[Raldo]

Official response says

In patch 1.21 we will be changing the system so that the cap on delivery items will be lifted 28 hours after the cap was reached

Cap lifted completely? Surely not. Bad communication and/or mistranslation from the official team?! Also, 28 hours is a really arbitrary number to pick.

[blythe]

I'd rather they delay the patch to April at this rate. Server merges should have been their priority. If people can't do content because they have no one to play with what's the point of adding content?

Mte.

And ifrit is doable through PUGs but moogle seems almost impossible. You'd have to find a group to do the pre reqs with (and apparently everyone had them done within the first few days of patch). I know no one on my server anymore who could help and have never even attempted the fight because of it.

[Sephiroth]

Funny enough the moogle fight I won was the first one I ever took part in. All further runs I did that night were wipes. This was before they changed the pre-reqs so people were still doing them after every fight so I have those sorted. After that night I went and wasted my time double slotting all my ARC gear which I've spent about half an hour wearing since the end of December. I'm going to be a shitty player when these jobs come out because I'm not getting the practice in with combos and the new abilities. Jobs are going to widen the gap further. Getting left behind it seems. The level cap really needs increasing to give people a reason to go learn their classes/jobs properly again.

I'm not a fan of PUGs for anything that requires strategy. Part of success is knowing who you're playing with and how they do things. Even a good player can appear bad in a PUG due to not fitting the style of the group. Kinda like these flop football players (Any Liverpool/Chelsea fans reading?) who transfer for ridiculous prices and score barely any goals at their new club. And then you've got the players who are naturally bad and only seeking PUGs because no linkshell wants them.

[Aratharn]

The supply shit still changes items once a week, but if the supply cap maxes out (3000/3000) it'll reset back to zero (0/3000) after 28 hours.

Are we so sure that the cap will still be 3000?

Also, 28 hours is a really arbitrary number to pick.

I thought so at first too but probably did 28 instead of 24 to give every possible time zone a chance to get their items in throughout the week. So you're not coming home from work everyday finding it capped because the JP's/non-8 to 5 people have capped everything.

[blythe]

Funny enough the moogle fight I won was the first one I ever took part in. All further runs I did that night were wipes. This was before they changed the pre-reqs so people were still doing them after every fight so I have those sorted. After that night I went and wasted my time double slotting all my ARC gear which I've spent about half an hour wearing since the end of December. I'm going to be a shitty player when these jobs come out because I'm not getting the practice in with combos and the new abilities. Jobs are going to widen the gap further. Getting left behind it seems. The level cap really needs increasing to give people a reason to go learn their classes/jobs properly again.

Oh, I didn't even know you had to repeat the pre reqs every time at first (was late to that patch, obviously).

I'm kind of hoping the jobs will play so much differently from classes that we'll all be kind of in the same boat. I definitely didn't get to a comfortable level with the new abilities in the short time I played between the patch and subscriptions.

PUGs aren't ideal but kind of the only option with each server having 3 or 4 "end-game" LSes that everyone that does do events is in at least a couple of, that of course then are full and aren't recruiting... and then the rest are social except not because their rosters are mostly dead players.

[solracht]

The level cap really needs increasing to give people a reason to go learn their classes/jobs properly again.

Or you can join a spiritbond/level45 party now.

[Raldo]

I'm kind of hoping the jobs will play so much differently from classes that we'll all be kind of in the same boat.

Hah! You've seen the action lists for the jobs, right? You lose 5 cross-class actions and gain 5 job-specific actions. I highly doubt that little difference will change much about the way we play. Whether or not you lose access to the remaining 5 cross-class abilities is still an unknown.

If it makes you feel any better, my linkshell disbanded right around the massive class overhaul so I haven't really had the chance to experience the changes at all. I'm clueless when it comes to how to use any of them properly, despite having several classes at 50. I still haven't done Moogle (or the prerequisite NMs). I just wile my time away grinding towards luminaries and pray that the game gets better. I'm aware of my incompetence and don't suffer PUGs with my presence (plus I bet getting a group to do the Moogle pre-reqs would be a pain in the ass).

[TacoTaru]

How do you figure you lose five cross class actions? Classes only have 15 abilities and you get 10 cross class abilities. That leaves you with five spots on the bar that are blank which job abilities will be filling.

[Raldo]

How do you figure you lose five cross class actions? Classes only have 15 abilities and you get 10 cross class abilities. That leaves you with five spots on the bar that are blank which job abilities will be filling.

Because the whole purpose of jobs is specialization, the point of which was that you will be sacrificing some, or all, of your cross-class abilities in order to utilize a job...? I thought this was common knowledge by now. If you didn't lose any cross-class abilities as a result of being on a job instead of a class, there would be literally no advantage to ever using a class over a job.

The blanks spots are, I assume, room for abilities you would gain whenever the level cap is increased.

[solracht]

there would be literally no advantage to ever using a class over a job.

Why should there be? From the looks of it and after learning more about the system, jobs are nothing more than an extra layer on top of classes that makes them more powerful. An extra layer that everyone is going to easily have access to since jobs are unlocked by quests.

The original plan of "class=solo, job=group" is pointless if the only difference between jobs and classes are the cross class skills.

[kyod]

I've only beaten Moogle once and I didn't even have the quest active, back when I was trying out for some new LS. Had to cancel my application once Yoshi mentioned server merges to avoid being a dick who joins, gets loot and leaves after a few months.

What?

I can understand if the drops went into a pool. But for primals, it really doesn't matter. It's not like most LSes these days do DH(lol), SHNMs(lol) or World NMs(lol) anymore.

And pick-up groups are hit/miss, true, but usually you can gauge the success of it based on who is shouting for the group. I've done pick-up Ifrit with randoms that have been smooth sailing.

ETA: Moogle with PGL is fairly straight-forward as long as you have people who know what they're doing and want to attempt it.

[Raldo]

Why should there be? From the looks of it and after learning more about the system, jobs are nothing more than an extra layer on top of classes that makes them more powerful. An extra layer that everyone is going to easily have access to since jobs are unlocked by quests.

The original plan of "class=solo, job=group" is pointless if the only difference between jobs and classes are the cross class skills.

/shrug I'm not trying to defend their decision; I'm just saying that's how it is.

The original intent was that, through the use of cross-class abilities, you gain an extra layer of survivability when solo. The best example of this is that an ARC with no cross-class abilities has no way of healing itself. Equipping things like bloodbath, cure, and second wind fill that gap. If you were to get on BRD, you lose some (all?) of your cross-class abilities thus losing out on the ability to heal yourself. This requires you to rely on your party to heal you, or more accurately, prevent you from taking any damage at all. In other words, in exchange for the lack of solo survivability, you gain the ability to buff your party. Makes sense to me. If I'm solo, my paltry buffs don't benefit me as much as cross-class abilities do, and vice versa for when I'm in a party.

If they still let you equip 5 cross-class abilities while on a job though, I will completely eat my above words and agree that jobs are in every way superior to classes. If jobs do indeed make classes completely obsolete, I question why jobs aren't just permanent upgrades to classes. I can only assume that the answer to that is so they can make several jobs based off of a single class at a later date. Only time will tell.

[Burningthought]

Are we so sure that the cap will still be 3000?



I thought so at first too but probably did 28 instead of 24 to give every possible time zone a chance to get their items in throughout the week. So you're not coming home from work everyday finding it capped because the JP's/non-8 to 5 people have capped everything.

The cap isn't going to change, but the new supply mission that requires rare/ex shit from dungeons won't be capped.

[miokomioko]

It's just a problem with the "cap will be lifted" vagueness. That could actually mean that either 3000/3000 resets back to 0/3000 after 28 hours or that 3000/3000 raises to 3000/4000 after 28 hours of being capped.

[donnie]

If they still let you equip 5 cross-class abilities while on a job though, I will completely eat my above words and agree that jobs are in every way superior to classes. If jobs do indeed make classes completely obsolete, I question why jobs aren't just permanent upgrades to classes. I can only assume that the answer to that is so they can make several jobs based off of a single class at a later date. Only time will tell.

there was a rumor few months back saying you need LV15 of class Y and LV30 of class Z to unlock a job. it might be what they think of later on once they introduce more jobs

[Corrderio]

It's not really a rumor. Yoshida said in an interview that was the current plan.

[Spider-Dan]

How do you figure you lose five cross class actions?

What evidence is there that jobs will even be able to cross-class abilities at all?

It seems highly unlikely that jobs will obsolete classes entirely, particularly since Yoshida has stated that classes will still serve a purpose. Given that jobs definitely have access to class-specific actions, it seems reasonable to expect that they will have a reduced ability to cross-class in exchange for their "specialization."

At the end of the day, if a job can do everything a class can plus more, then what was the point of cutting down the ability lists from 1.19 only to reinflate them in the next patch?

[Grey Jorildyn]

At the end of the day, if a job can do everything a class can plus more, then what was the point of cutting down the ability lists from 1.19 only to reinflate them in the next patch?

IMO, you just answered your own question.

I feel that many abilities that got the proverbial axe in 1.20 did so in order to be made job-specific. Things like Siphon MP can be renamed Aspir and then given to BLM. Shell only usable by WHM, Deflection only by PLD. It actually makes a lot of sense if you consider their previous statement about class=solo and job=party play. The extra abilities will add a job-specific dynamic to party setups only achievable by bring X class to the raid. It certainly won't kill things like class-stacking until they start designing encounters better, but it sure saves them a lot of work using existing spells they don't have to test as they know they function properly as is.

[Burningthought]

What evidence is there that jobs will even be able to cross-class abilities at all?

It seems highly unlikely that jobs will obsolete classes entirely, particularly since Yoshida has stated that classes will still serve a purpose. Given that jobs definitely have access to class-specific actions, it seems reasonable to expect that they will have a reduced ability to cross-class in exchange for their "specialization."

At the end of the day, if a job can do everything a class can plus more, then what was the point of cutting down the ability lists from 1.19 only to reinflate them in the next patch?

The community team commented a little bit about how the job system will work.

Translation by Reinheart on the official forums:

Question: Personally I'm wondering about the limitation of putting other class actions when becoming a Job. Would it be basically where the amount of actions you can put compared to class would be less? (Ex: 5 being half) or would it be where you can only put on certain classes actions (Ex: If Paladin can only put GLA + CON) would like for you to announce this in the topics as well.

Answer: What you're guessing is pretty much correct.
For more details we are planning to announce in the topics so please hang in there.

Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post561757

Also, evidence that cross class skills and action combos will continue to work while playing as a job:

Hey gang,

There were a few questions answered in regards to the upcoming debut of the Job System that we wanted to pass along. While this isn't the full list of details, as those will be revealed on Lodestone in an upcoming article, there are a few questions we have answers for.

A player asked if you can use job stones (tentative) while in combat; and just like changing classes, as long as you're in passive mode and not engaged with an enemy, you'll be able to switch jobs.

There was also a question about linking class weapon skills with job specific weapon skills; since you'll be able to utilize your class actions while on a job (for example, using lancer actions while playing as dragoon), you will be able to combo class and job actions. There was also a question asking to confirm whether or not you can wear job artifact armor while playing as a class; you cannot wear job specific armor while playing as a class.

Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post560914

[Gokulo]

Also, evidence that cross class skills and action combos will continue to work while playing as a job:

Nowhere in that quote he talks about cross class skills though. And afair they mentioned you won't be able to use these on jobs.