Comments from the Devs

[Aratharn]

Most will probably stick to either the class, or the job, fulltime.

If only for needing 1 gear set.

My inventory is in dire need of freeing up some space but I can't quite get myself to let go of all that melded class gear since you can't wear AF on classes.

[TacoTaru]

They could limit growth to jobs only when the level caps go up. For instance, 50 is where all classes gain their last ability and to get anything else going forward you would need to be on jobs. You could level higher on classes, but would gain no abilities.

[Kurokikaze]

What they needed to do was boost stats from Class -> Job to the point where you won't use classes much if at all. It's supposed to be an obvious step up - not some kind of sidegrade that is situational.

[Raldo]

I'm pretty sure the entire point of jobs was for them to be a situational sidegrade...

[Elcura]

I'm pretty sure the entire point of jobs was for them to be a situational sidegrade...

While I agree with this, I'm pretty sure no one really wants this. People want jobs to be superior to classes in basically every shape, way and form, and I can get on board with that.

[Raldo]

While I agree with this, I'm pretty sure no one really wants this. People want jobs to be superior to classes in basically every shape, way and form, and I can get on board with that.

Oh aye, I completely agree with that.

[Grey Jorildyn]

There are some inherent things that they did across the board to make jobs seem better. Small stat changes for one. Apparently heightened hp/mp regen as well I've heard. But probably the most significant one is the change in ability timers. Sacred prism is 60s on whm not 90s. Stuff like that has the potential to be clutch but I think It also shows how out of touch SE is with the system. Changing a few timers around isn't always a big enough tradeoff for the loss of utility with certain classes.

I think the big problem is that the armory system's apparent intention of being for "solo play" has boiled down to to it being great in parties too. Naturally we've been spoiled by it to this point so we are gonna see the job system as a step backwards in that respect. Sadly it's true in many ways.

[solracht]

What they needed to do was boost stats from Class -> Job to the point where you won't use classes much if at all. It's supposed to be an obvious step up - not some kind of sidegrade that is situational.

I'm pretty sure the entire point of jobs was for them to be a situational sidegrade...

Raldo is correct, but that's what the mistake was imo.

A situational job system made sense back when classes were so open and non-specialized, but now? Jobs perform the same roles as their respective classes and share most of their skill repertoire with them.

Is there a point in keeping classes relevant past level30 that couldn't have been accomplished via jobs? They could let us choose our 2 subclasses depending on the situation (ala XI's subjob system) and we could simply use different gearsets on our jobs depending on whether we wanted to solo or party, and we'd be in the same situation we are now without making things so awkward.

[TacoTaru]

But probably the most significant one is the change in ability timers. Sacred prism is 60s on whm not 90s. Stuff like that has the potential to be clutch but I think It also shows how out of touch SE is with the system.

Just to point this out, that's actually the CNJ Trait "Swift Sacred Prism" that's making that change, not the WHM job itself. It intrigued me so I had a friend go test some other jobs and then he realized the only actions that were faster were faster because of traits.

[Burningthought]

Moogle is slightly harder with the crowd control changes, my LS went in like retards trying to bind everything every time they could and we ended up wiping at the last two moogles because Bind just kept getting resisted.

[Raldo]

Moogle is slightly harder with the crowd control changes, my LS went in like retards trying to bind everything every time they could and we ended up wiping at the last two moogles because Bind just kept getting resisted.

I was told that Elemental Seal (or whatever the hell that m.acc ability is called) "resets resistances". Is that true, a crock of shit, or only applies to that cast?

[Tomino]

In my opinion, for 2.0 they should keep classes as some sort of baseline role : once you gain access to the job, the class itself becomes obsolete in every possible aspect.
This way, any inexperienced or new player can see to it as some sort of overall improvement that lead to the trademark job role.
It's also easier to tell players : "Lancer will evolve into Dragoon", instead of "Lancer can eventually be Dragoon, but not all the time because with less than 4 members it'll still be better, etc"

The class would still retain its fuction once more jobs become available : some sort of "starting point" from where jobs branch out.
This way, instead of going from Bard to Thief, you'd revert from Bard to Archer, then to Thief (just an example). Also, it would be the Archer class leading you to Thief job quests, not Bard.

[Lucavi]

So the game is not so much situational side-gear like in XI, but is now situational side-jobs...

Not sure how I feel about that. On the plus side, anyone that really loved throwing out the "shit is situational!" quote can keep rolling along with it.

[Burningthought]

I was told that Elemental Seal (or whatever the hell that m.acc ability is called) "resets resistances". Is that true, a crock of shit, or only applies to that cast?

I don't think so. I don't know for sure though. Dark Seal just increases magic acc. it doesn't say anything about resistances afaik. We did have a BLM in our group so I'm sure that would've come up during the fight had it actually worked.

Also, with all this situational talk. Weren't jobs just supposed to be used in groups? You sacrifice the utility of classes in order to become a better DD, Tank or Support. If Yoshi-P can't make jobs shine every time in a party setting, then the entire system has failed and they need to go back to the drawing board with it. I haven't run into a situation yet during raids where I wanted to switch to cnj, or archer instead of the job i'm on, and neither has anyone else in my group. So I think for the most part it's working pretty well. The cap won't always be at 50 and jobs will eventually get newer and better skills.

[Cichy]

I agree it's a whole mess with class vs jobs. Like someone suggested I wish classes would become obsolete past 30. I guess in many cases they do like whm or war. I knew right away this would be very hard to balance. Maybe when there will be 2 jobs per class it will look different?

[Aratharn]

This:

The cap won't always be at 50 and jobs will eventually get newer and better skills.

plus this:

Maybe when there will be 2 jobs per class it will look different?

[Niiro]

They made it clear when they mentioned there will be Class AF (don't remember if they called it AF or just class-specific, but that's the impression I got) that they don't plan to scrap classes.

Overall I'm not completely adverse to the class/job system as it accomplishes the intended goal pretty well. When solo or lowmanning there's a lot of very good reasons to use classes over jobs, people are often just blinded by "omg AF looks so cool, look at me jump, etc".

The main caveat being inventory space (class/job specific gear), which we can only hope is remedied with the "mannequin" thing they have planned for the future.

[Spider-Dan]

They could let us choose our 2 subclasses depending on the situation (ala XI's subjob system) and we could simply use different gearsets on our jobs depending on whether we wanted to solo or party, and we'd be in the same situation we are now without making things so awkward.

This would defeat the most purpose of making jobs in the first place. People would just subclass whichever classes) suits them best, which wouldn't help with the "class identity" complaints.

[Lordender]

I don't think the class/job system is going to fly when it comes time to get completely new players into the game. I was explaining the system to someone who was interested in trying 14 out for the first time the other day.

He asked what was the difference between a class vs job.

I replied that classes are good for solo/low manned stuff but he'd want to change into a job for big party content.

He then asked how do you get jobs?

I said well, you have to get 1 class to 30, another sub class to 15 then do some quests to unlock the corresponding job.

he said sounds like a lot of work to be able to function in full party play, sounds sorta like a hassle than fun, needless to say I got a msg an hr later saying he bought WoW instead.

[miokomioko]

Simplest explanation: Jobs are a "mode" that a class can go into that locks out most cross-class actions while also grants a few unique actions. The end.