Comments from the Devs

[Hiroishime]

What does that even mean? -80 enmity per action?

means you will have -80 enmity gear for 1minute duration.

[Lordender]

Resetting stat allocation, a capability that has existed since before launch and in it's current iteration has limited usefulness and no potential for abuse...

Stat allocation never made any sense, it never works in any game its in because everyone will end up with the same stats once people figure out the best setup for x job. Seems like another convoluted idea by SE especially when you have a system where you can freely change into jobs and its especially fail when each new patch seems to bring a "flavor of the month" stacking job for content.

[Charismatic]

Stat allocation never made any sense, it never works in any game its in because everyone will end up with the same stats once people figure out the best setup for x job.

I don't know of all that many online games with stat allocation but I do know that Ragnarok Online at the very least fucks your theory up badly.
For literally every class there's several different 'optimal' stat builds you can go with.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Stat allocation never made any sense, it never works in any game its in because everyone will end up with the same stats once people figure out the best setup for x job. Seems like another convoluted idea by SE especially when you have a system where you can freely change into jobs and its especially fail when each new patch seems to bring a "flavor of the month" stacking job for content.

I made this precise point when the game launched and got white knighted to death about it. Think it was something along the lines of how VIT = +hp, MND =+mp, etc. and how old school that concept was (we're talking MUD days here).

There really is no need for point allocation in this game at all. Each job has one strong spec and that's about it. You can change gear to "change spec" if you like, and that's kinda how it's been since XI. Allowing us to allocated a few piddly stats is a placebo effect in place to make it seem like we have choice. It's one of the last remnants of the old system and just need to go imo.

Seriously though, the only job that can currently do two things well is WAR.

[Charismatic]

Seriously though, the only job that can currently do two things well is WAR.

Don't you think that maybe, rather than removing stat allocation they should change this instead and make stat allocation more important? I mean, hell... the job system could easily give us multiple specs that we can switch between if they just add more jobs for each class.

[miokomioko]

I'm on board with hating custom stat allocation. That's what equipment is for.

[Charismatic]

After playing RO, I think I'll always be a fan of it. Different stat builds gave me different gear goals. My AGI/CRIT Knight definitely didn't wear the same gear as my VIT/Spear tank of a Knight. Different gear slotted with different cards and COMPLETELY different playstyles even though both were the same class.

If a game is going to have stat allocation, the end goal should be something like that, where the guy next to you is the same class but his style could be totally different. With the game as it is, stat allocation is worthless... but the game really shouldn't be 'as it is'.

[Draylo]

I'm on board with hating custom stat allocation. That's what equipment is for.

Same here

[Burningthought]

I'm on board with hating custom stat allocation. That's what equipment is for.

I hate it too, but the assholes on the official forum lobbied for it. Those forums are going to be the death of this game.

Edit: OMG GAIZ JOBS SUCK PLZ REMOVE CLASSES AND ADD PET JOBS ONRY. CHEESECAEK PLZ. WE NEED MAOR SUBLIGAR. CAN WE HAZ MAMMALIAN BEAST VIERA LIEK RACE? MAEK THIS GAME MOAR LIEK WOW, MAKE THIS GAEM MORE LEIK TERA. LISTEN TO MAI NEW JOB IDEA PLZ IMPLMENT NAO.

[Charismatic]

Those forums are going to be the death of this game.

More than that, close-mindedness will.

[Burningthought]

More than that, close-mindedness will.

As much as I love dev interaction and them being open minded about suggestions this generation, I kinda miss how XI's devs ignored the fuck out of everyone but jp players.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Don't you think that maybe, rather than removing stat allocation they should change this instead and make stat allocation more important? I mean, hell... the job system could easily give us multiple specs that we can switch between if they just add more jobs for each class.

Oh absolutely. Personally I'm of the mindset that jobs should be "jobs". They should be pro/top-tier/tits in one role. Each class should have 3-4 jobs imo and we might see that down the road but right now we're just starting along the path. It's already implemented in a dicey way due to the armoury system being relatively powerful from a utility standpoint, and so they've got to grow jobs past just these 5 abilities (raise level cap) before we can see just how powerful the jobs are. Once people begin utilizing the job system to play roles unintended by the developers however, then shit hits the fan. We saw it in XI with RDM and NIN. In some cases they roll with it, and in others they give it the nerfbat. I'd hate to see that happen here with each patch so all they've gotta do is do it right and keep patching it right.

People have thrown around 100 ideas about class growth/job branching, but really, they've already made that game (FF:T) and it was awesome. If they're gonna borrow, then they should do what works with it (and I like yoshi-P's admittance that you can't be original 100% of the time). That's kinda why I like the question on the survey about what class would you like to see next. Unfortunately fanboys are going to pick what they want, rather than what the game needs objectively (there is some blurred lines here however), but the intention is good. What remains to be seen is what base classes will be added next and hopefully the poll will help guide them in some direction. They can do this, but it's gotta be done right. As it stands, everytime they add a base class, they're going to have to add a job for it too and that could slow things down.

[Kaylia]

I'm on board with hating custom stat allocation. That's what equipment is for.

Pretty much.

In a single players game where you level constantly, spending points can be fun, but in a mmo where balances and efficiency are important, it makes no sense.

It doesn't help that new players probably won't know where to drop their points either. It's not very rewarding to throw points when you can't really see the result anywhere.

[Cichy]

Oh absolutely. Personally I'm of the mindset that jobs should be "jobs". They should be pro/top-tier/tits in one role. Each class should have 3-4 jobs imo and we might see that down the road but right now we're just starting along the path. It's already implemented in a dicey way due to the armoury system being relatively powerful from a utility standpoint, and so they've got to grow jobs past just these 5 abilities (raise level cap) before we can see just how powerful the jobs are. Once people begin utilizing the job system to play roles unintended by the developers however, then shit hits the fan. We saw it in XI with RDM and NIN. In some cases they roll with it, and in others they give it the nerfbat. I'd hate to see that happen here with each patch so all they've gotta do is do it right and keep patching it right.

People have thrown around 100 ideas about class growth/job branching, but really, they've already made that game (FF:T) and it was awesome. If they're gonna borrow, then they should do what works with it (and I like yoshi-P's admittance that you can't be original 100% of the time). That's kinda why I like the question on the survey about what class would you like to see next. Unfortunately fanboys are going to pick what they want, rather than what the game needs objectively (there is some blurred lines here however), but the intention is good. What remains to be seen is what base classes will be added next and hopefully the poll will help guide them in some direction. They can do this, but it's gotta be done right. As it stands, everytime they add a base class, they're going to have to add a job for it too and that could slow things down.

Yeah I guess Yoshi is planning to have atleast two jobs per class. So if GLD = PLD or DRK it would be great since the person who levels GLD could play DD or tank depending on a situation. Instead of leveling all classes you could maybe actually do fine with 1.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I like that idea a lot, but the armory system really has to go otherwise we're going to see limitations imposed needlessly.

DRK coming from GLA is fine, but that means it's locked into using swords. Sure this is "classic final fantasy" but it falls short in an mmo, particularly this one where swords are not exactly good dps weapons and will likely never be.

Just as how point allocation is silly, so to is the "armory system". Seriously, it's a neat way to switch classes on the fly and all, but it lacks vision for developing weapon evolution. As it stands, they'd have to pull daggers from GLA if they wanted to make a proper "classic final fantasy" thief class. Poor hindsight right there.

[Lordender]

A lot of games are moving away from stat allocation, look no further as to why Blizzard removed it from Diablo 3. All it does is give an illusion of choice, pidgeonholds the player into 1 direction depending on what job/class you play, you're going to min/max for best performance. I can't wait until completely new players come into the game and get flamed because they didn't realize that favorite DD class should have x str or x int. The system just sounds so dumb and outdated, I don't really understand how or why Yoshi-p's team spent all this time working to streamline things with the game over the past year but still manages to add things that seem convoluted and backwards.

If Yoshi-P wants this to be a game where anyone can just pick up and play without confusing the hell out of newbs he will have to quit listening to the fanboys that just want FFXI-HD.

[Rocl]

DRK coming from GLA is fine, but that means it's locked into using swords. Sure this is "classic final fantasy" but it falls short in an mmo, particularly this one where swords are not exactly good dps weapons and will likely never be.

Why can't they use a heretofore unheard of "two-handed sword" much the same way Conjurers and Thaumaturges get one-handed and two-handed arms? Hell, we might not even have to use swords at all and DRK could use it's own unique weapon class like Scythe or well, idk any other "iconic" DRK weapon as they've relatively only used swords in past Final Fantasies which should not really be indicative of anything but my point is that a class can have more than one weapon type, specifically 1h vs 2h

Pulling daggers from Gladiator is rather annoying yeah, but if it's done before 2.0 I doubt it'd be much of a hooplah because honestly... who cares about the people playing now? The majority of their bank rides on the rerelease, and all of us who are playing now are probably retarded enough to keep playing regardless. Not to mention last I checked the wards they seemed to have emphasized Gladiators using swords and not daggers, specifically things like Spatha, Gladius, Longsword, Winglets etc., I don't know if I even saw a non-dated Dagger.

Edit: Upon checking there are exactly four non-dated daggers, including the Goblin and U/U Toto-rak daggers. I mean, unless we're talking about throwing daggers, then there's 3 more of those. I digress, "Dated" recipes are set to be removed before 2.0, yeah? So that means there are literally four daggers to worry about, I don't think it's too much to simply change them to "THF" instead of "GLA"

[Makwa]

I could've sworn Yoshi or another dev said somewhere that if/when a "thief" class was added it would use it's own "dual weapon" weapon. Maybe dual knives or something as a new synth?
Could also just throw RDM as another job for gladiator, gives it a healer/nuker role instead of tank, and make a great sword class(Knight? Squire? Could put it's guild in Ishgard when it's released) with DRK(Drain/Spike dmg) and maybe even SAM(Combo/TP mastery) as jobs for it, just make GK models for certain swords.
The armory system needs work yeah, but it might be alright down the road if they decide to add multiple jobs to a class.

[Corrderio]

Pulling daggers from Gladiator is rather annoying yeah, but if it's done before 2.0 I doubt it'd be much of a hooplah because honestly... who cares about the people playing now? The majority of their bank rides on the rerelease, and all of us who are playing now are probably retarded enough to keep playing regardless. Not to mention last I checked the wards they seemed to have emphasized Gladiators using swords and not daggers, specifically things like Spatha, Gladius, Longsword, Winglets etc., I don't know if I even saw a non-dated Dagger.

This is one thing I never understood. Back when Yoshida was redoing the crafting recipes for each class he had the chance to phase out daggers/knives from GLA into their own class, instead he redid the ones prior to that and gave them a few new ones.

[Alkar]

This is one thing I never understood. Back when Yoshida was redoing the crafting recipes for each class he had the chance to phase out daggers/knives from GLA into their own class, instead he redid the ones prior to that and gave them a few new ones.

He wasn't planning to add new classes. Just keep the daggers in for now and move them to the Thief/Ninja class later on.
They can easily add new weapons to classes or remove existing ones, there's no rule about this.