Comments from the Devs

[Spira]

That's not the point really considering most of those games do not have jobs in them. Whenever jobs are involved Meteor is usually the ultimate spell for Black Mages and thus more fitting for a BLM limit.
FFX is the only exception while FFIX has a different spell that is simply a cooler version of Meteor. (and btw Meteor is stronger than Ultima in 8, just saying )

you're just streamlining your argument now. job or no job, the spells can and have appeared in games and as far as precedent is concerned, Ultima beats out Meteor in terms of being the ultimate black magic spell (note of exception for FF2, ultima is white magic).

damage-wise, Meteor will win out Ultima in FF8 only if you're fighting single targets, or if used with Rinoa's Angel Wing under a specific build. The game itself recognizes Ultima to be stronger since it junctions better to every basic stat anyway.

[Alkar]

you're just streamlining your argument now. job or no job, the spells can and have appeared in games and as far as precedent is concerned, Ultima beats out Meteor in terms of being the ultimate black magic spell (note of exception for FF2, ultima is white magic).

damage-wise, Meteor will win out Ultima in FF8 only if you're fighting single targets, or if used with Rinoa's Angel Wing under a specific build. The game itself recognizes Ultima to be stronger since it junctions better to every basic stat anyway.

No, I'm not. We're talking about Black Mages here and how relevant the Meteor spell is to them. In most FF games where Black Mage does not exist as a playable class there's no school of magic anyway.
FF2: here you have white and black magic but Ultima belongs to the former.
FF6: No schools of magic here except for Blue Magic, spells are divided in categories.
FF7: Categories again.
FF8: same.
FF12: back to white, black, etc. but no Meteor or Ultima as both are special attacks for the Espers.
FF13: Nothing again.
My point is very clear and has been the same from the start.
You can't claim that Ultima is generally the ultimate black magic spell when it's simply not true. Whenever the game classifies attack/enfeebling spells as black magic it's usually Meteor. The only exception in the whole series is FF10.
Oh and as an additional note... in FF7 there's White and Black materia which are likely the only references to black and white magic in the game and both cast what usually is considered the ultimate spell in each category (Holy and Meteor).

[Stromgarde]

In FFV, meteor is the best time magic, while flare is the best black magic.

Spoiler: show

quick is really the best time magic

[Rionel]

I mean, I always thought that Ultima was the best since it's just a short version of ULTIMAte. It does seem appropriate.

But whatever! Like, whether it be Meteor or Ultima or whatever, we still get a trademark cool attack that I'm pretty sure any FF fan who's even remotely familiar with the series will recognize. Can't we just be satisfied with that?

Back to the subject to the subject at hand, I'm really glad they've decided to improve their servers by so much so that we'll get a much more responsive and less frustrating positioning system, which I know had been harped on as one of the major flaws with the previous 1.0.

There really seems to be nothing but really positive change happening to 2.0 which leaves me excited and hopeful that it'll change people's generally bitter aftertaste of FFXIV to a better one. I'll cross my fingers for you, Yoshida.

[Spira]

My point is very clear and has been the same from the start.
You can't claim that Ultima is generally the ultimate black magic spell when it's simply not true.

My point, except change Ultima to Meteor.

Here's a breakdown for you.

In the games where both Ultima and Meteor appear usable to the player (FF6, 8, actually also FF4 DS), they are not clearly divided by the colored schools of magic, so in these 3 games you cant say either of them are black magic (except FF4 Meteor). However, it is clear by comparison, that whenever Ultima and Meteor appear alongside each other in the same game, and usable by players, Ultima is always stronger.

In the games where they don't appear concurrently but are usable, both Meteor and Ultima have been placed in varying classes of magic.

the only games that apply the colored magic system with Black Magic in it is FF1-5, 9, 10 and 12.
8 games.
Meteor is the ultimate black magic spell in 2 of them (FF3, 4), and the strongest time magic spell in 1 (FF5)
Ultima is the ultimate black magic spell in 1 game, 10, and the strongest white magic spell in 1 (FF2)
Of the remaining 3 games, 2 don't have either spell. (FF1, 12)
And in the last game FF9, Meteor appears, but is not the strongest black magic spell.

I hope you're seeing my point.

Whenever Ultima appears in a game, it is ALWAYS the strongest magic spell, black magic or otherwise.
Whenever Meteor appears alone, it is usually the strongest spell (black magic or otherwise), but not necessarily so.
Whenever both appear, Ultima is always stronger than Meteor.

Therefore, and with good reason, Ultima has always been regarded as the strongest magic attack.

[Alkar]

I see your point but like I've been saying this whole time Meteor is simply more iconic for the job. It's usually regarded as the ultimate black magic spell whenever that school of magic exists. In some games it's obvious because it's the most powerful spell that can be cast by the job, in others it's outright told by the story itself. Ultima is indeed the strongest magic attack whenever it appears but it's hardly ever associated with the BLM job with 10 as the only real exception.
It's not a coincidence that the Black Materia in VII is used to cast Meteor.
And Doomsday is a huge rock falling from the sky so yeah...
You could also argue that Bahamut is not the strongest summon anymore but can you find anything more iconic than him?
That's really it, Ultima is the strongest magic attack but it could easily be given to any mage job or class in the game. Meteor could be given to Time Mage but that job will hardly show up in an MMO setting if ever and considering the devs this time want to avoid Haste like the plague it probably won't happen in XIV.
For the other jobs they could really add anything as a Limit Break considering the iconic attacks and traits are already in the game except for Dragoon I guess, Highwind should really be their limit.

[millionsknives]

FFS stop clogging up the thread with all this Meteor Vs Ultima crap.

[LD]

meh, if actual information were coming in it would bother me more. The raw info thread exists for this very reason, to keep it away from naturally meandering conversations.

[Kaiyoko]

Should probably have a Limit break speculation thread.

[LD]

We don't need any more threads taking up space, this is fine. Nothing else is happening so people can wax minutiae.

[Oreth]

What a fucking stupid argument!

[LD]

That's the spirit.

[Spira]

Lol.

And as soon as people say they're ok with rambling conversations it's probably going to stop.

I definitely agree that Meteor is more iconic wrt Black Mage, but I do feel Ultima is more iconic as a powerful spell in general. And I see no reason why BLM can't have both.

If I had it my way, even without knowledge of how Limit Breaks work, I'd give BLMs Ultima as a second Limit Break that does damage and probably some other effect as well to differentiate it functionally from Meteor. If they want to throw in some FFXI nostalgia they could add a 3rd limit break to be Manafont for the entire party..

For SMN id love for Megaflare as the Limit Break for sure... SMN signatures are a lot more easy to tell

[Thiefami]

the difference isn't between a job and a class, it's between a system and the lack thereof. you cannot pick which class the characters play, therefore it is not a job system.

as I said, "even if it isn't visible on the surface". I meant job system as a means to classify a role, whether you can freely change roles for a character or not, a lot of characters from FF games follow specific archetypes.

[Alkar]

Well we can talk about the fourth player's poll now!
Nvm

[Gokulo]

Arcanist/SMN are up on the main site. No in-game af model yet though :< Only the arts.

[Alkar]

They changed the description for Arcanist. I suppose the other one was an older concept (the one we see in-game right now).

[TacoTaru]

Couple of translations from Reinheart.

Originally Posted by Triairy
Good evening,

Originally Posted by sal_zatk
In the main quest a monster named Ascian comes out but after it's appearance there is nothing and it's a mystery...
Will it come out in 2.0 or was it forgotten...?
Was said it was very dangerous and strong so was hoping it was going to come out but now we're almost at 2.0 so would like to know something about it!

We haven't forgotten and not planning to make it look like it never happened either
I can't explain the details since it will become a spoiler but in 2.0 we are planning to revamp the main quest and for those parts that remained a mystery will be told within the quests so please look forward to it.

Originally Posted by Triairy
Good evening,
Thank you for the many feedbacks

We are currently not looking into changing the current versions difficulty on the quest "Relic Reborn".
(We are checking the amount of relics being obtained and more players are obtaining them than what we expected, so that is one of the reasons)
However in 2.0 when weapons with higher stats than current AF weapons are out then at that time it is possible that we may adjust the difficulty to match that weapons strength.

I thought they confirmed that AF weapons would be able to be upgraded an always best in slot, but now I'm not sure if I'm misremembering something most of us just assumed.

[miokomioko]

I swear I remember Yoshi or someone saying that relics were supposed to be upgraded throughout the life of the game.

[Alkar]

Iirc he said they'd be upgradeable but not "best in slot forever". All he's saying there is that they'll eventually make the quest easier when better weapons are released. It doesn't deny upgrades.