Comments from the Devs

[xopher]

Holy shit this is comments from the devs not HEY LET'S DISCUSS THE PROS AND CONS OF GEAR SWAPPING. Make a new fucking thread.

[Spider-Dan]

You completely avoided the question.

In your hypothetical world where gear swapping during battle in XIV is possible, trait swapping clearly would be as well.

I don't want that, but what would be the advantage to having it tied to a piece of gear THAT DOES NOT HAVE USEFUL STATS, REQUIRES A MACRO (NO ACTION BAR ACTIVATION), AND TAKES UP INVENTORY SPACE COMPARED TO A TRAIT WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO WEAR APPROPRIATE GEAR.

Notwithstanding the fact that you're actively arguing against the type of gameplay that battle-swapping (traits or gear) promotes, if the hypothetical scenario is one where every piece of swappable gear is instead a swappable trait... sure, I guess I'm fine with it?

Such a proposition is light-years away from anything that exists or has even been proposed to this point, but I suppose there's no technical obstacle to making such a game.

Also, no shit you couldn't equip all traits simultaneously, could you equip Osode and Haub+1 at the same time in your Gekko macro?

You say "obviously I'm not suggesting that you could equip all traits, duh" immediately after casually proposing respec'ing mid-battle?

[Elcura]

I don't understand your objection.

I'm going to be pushing a macro to recast Utsusemi, whether there is gearswapping or not. My Utsusemi macro automatically switches me to full haste/evasion gear.

I'm going to be pushing a macro to execute Collaborator, whether there is gearswapping or not. My Collaborator macro automatically switches me to full evasion gear.

etc.

Is it clumsy and awkward because my chat log has ten lines of "Equipment changed." before I do an action? Because again, that's just an implementation gripe.

It's clumsy and awkward because of what you need to go through to change that macro and the implications of what people can do actively in a battle with such mechanics. What you want to say is it works faster and larger than it originally did, but it was never fluid, not much (if anything) in XI was.

Every single thing in this paragraph is addressable through implementation.

Can be, yet wasn't. Again, my point (on this subject) isn't that it can't be done well -- or at least better -- it's that you're better off without such a system holding you back. It wasn't fluid because of implementation, and the implications such an XI-esque system comes with isn't attractive either. But this is too big and wide an area to get into for many reasons.

So why are you (plural) complaining about being "forced" to collect all this sidegrade gear or be labeled a gimp?

Either community perception is of overwhelming importance, or it is not. Either way, my point is that if community expectations on gear are potentially oppressive, community expecations on leveling subclasses are no less so.

I never said the community doesn't expect it or it isn't oppressive, I merely mentioned that you have more options than you think. Whether you want to fold or not is entirely up to you. Personally, I don't plan to fold to gear swapping for single abilities unless it's done really well. Any XI flashbacks and I'm getting the fuck out.

The point is people do anything to get ahead, whether it's a large jump (sub abilities) or a small jump (gear swaps), people always go that extra mile to be better. You take out the wastefulness of gear swapping and you take away that extra mile that devalues the game and people stop doing it, rather they can't do it, so there are no silly expectations. Just large ones. Not everything is good, so take out the stuff that makes minimal difference and focus on the larger things. I wasn't against the concept of leveling new sub jobs in XI because it allowed me to explore new jobs and shit. Same goes for in XIV (and any game I play), and the gear swap macro stuff could go to hell. Same with XIV. If you don't get it by now, I'll say it again. The difference is scale.

[Lucavi]

Such an impassioned debate...

[Wulfgang]

Holy shit this is comments from the devs not HEY LET'S DISCUSS THE PROS AND CONS OF GEAR SWAPPING. Make a new fucking thread.

haha I am about to give up on this thread. About 4% of this thread actually addresses comments from the devs.

[miokomioko]

SHOOOSH

While the details have yet to be finalized, Yoshida did discuss a bit about his plans for the new rewards system in a recent media interview. He said that for the overall path for how adventurers increase their strength, they're creating a flow where you would earn tokens via content to purchase equipment. Then, using that new gear, would be able to take on challenges for rare items, and once complete, challenge ever harder content to really become powerful. Players should be able to achieve the first objective, and then really challenge themselves on the higher difficulty content.

As soon as we have more concrete examples or details, we'll be sure to pass them along!

It looks like the dev. team have been thinking about the possibilities of adding decorative trophies in Free Companies! One of the ideas that they are looking into is creating taxidermy like items from materials that you obtain from NM battles. Just make sure to keep in mind that it isn't a definite yes, but just something that they're thinking about!

Run away my coeurl buddies!

[solracht]

Wrong thread, only comments from the armchair devs here

[Elcura]

This thread is full of tangents and information. Information > tangent > new information > new tangent etc since the thread began. Dunno why this tangent is so surprising or bothersome. You should be used to it.

Also, let's not forget there's a comments from the devs thread that disallows discussion, so complaining about people talking about some tangent shouldn't bother you. Just ignore us and discuss what you want while we discuss what we want.

[Enygma55]

There's a certain lv of tangent that's acceptible, but when it becomes 3 pages of full blown discussion that warrents its own thread, its out of control.

I don't mind it personally as I just ignore it at this point. Both sides arguing their same point and neither is acknowledging the others point.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Meh i think mods should have split the thread awhile ago. It's a good discussion but we've had it before. I wanted to jump in myself but the points were being covered so didn't wanna be part of the derail. The overarching ideas are there and warrant greater discussion imo. Gear swapping is just a byproduct, not a cause.

[Grey Jorildyn]

That comment is both progressive and dangerous. Mind you, I love the idea of tiered gear progression, which is what is essentially being described. What I worry about is how it effects the game in the longrun.

Those familiar with a system like this know that it makes it even more difficult for players to get into endgame linkshells. Mine's been closed for awhile as have a few others (i mean, who would recruit right now anyway?). When you now need particular gear requirements in addition to experience to compete for a spot on a roster, it widens the gap between end gamers and casuals even more. This seems in line with their implementation of gear score. While that acts as a (poor) concrete measure of a player's raid accomplishments, it alienates people too (also it relates even more poorly to the previous discussion because, for example, I doubt a gallant surcoat will have a good gear score). Of course if you're already in an established shell this isn't a problem for you. If we have to recruit people to fill ranks and then have to go backwards in majority progression to gear that person out so we can then make forward progression as a whole, it really slows shit down. In the longrun it essentially creates small shells with static membership that never recruit and keep to themselves. Seems counter-intuitive to the whole alliance thing they're trying to propose between free companies imo.

Slightly worried to that end.

[Churchill]

It seems like they've copied WoW entirely as far as gear progression and attainment goes (based on their comments)

WoW is very easy to get caught up if you are new, as drop rates are good and honor items get you (actually) good gear. From what that note says, it seems more like totem type items get you shit gear.

[Lokus]

We already saw shades of this back in XI in regards to Sky and Sea access and to a certain extent, some Dynamis shells as well.

But as long as the drop rates aren't Ifrit-tier, it won't be a pain in the ass to get caught up if you miss the initial wave.

[Sephiroth]

SE have already experimented with tiered progression in a way and it's the worst thing they've done. Not saying it can't be done better but I want no more of this shit they gave us.

Step 1: Collect 9 rare drop hamlet seals
Step 2: All other content to get your relic.

If you missed the boat with step 1 you're fucked. I've pretty much had no reason to play the game for the past 4 months because after missing the step 1 boat everyone has been too busy obtaining their relics to spend a lot of time going backwards to help me get seals in content that is boring and has terrible drop rates. I'd be surprised if you could join an end-game LS these days without having completed step 1. You're looking at a week of 7 people's time dedicated to playing hamlet to get someone passed step 1 unless they have 60 million gil to blow on it. That's not fun for anyone, a week is a long time. If that's the kind of crap we'll be dealing with in ARR then I can see a lot of people being pissed off.

SE need to give more info on how they intend to implement the token system and how it would work on a quest like relic. They need to make it so that everyone in a party is rewarded in some way no matter whether they're doing hamlet and don't need it or doing Ifrit hard and don't need it. But I think that's too much for SE.

[Churchill]

idk, I spent a total of 4-5 hours getting all 9 of my seals. You don't even have to blow 60m, if you have a linkshell, 7 people who don't need seals usually equates 6 or less 60k runs to get 3. I did top3 for 2 areas and it cost me 15m, and I only did it to be polite and waste less of their time.

[Sephiroth]

You got lucky then. I've found the drop rate to be between 1 in 6-8 runs for seals. So let's say 20 runs for 3 seals. That's a lot of time to require 7 people help with, and that's just one area. Chances are you're looking at two cycles for each hamlet, hence my estimate of a week.

[Niiro]

Finding 7 people that don't need seals to do hamlet all day for you when you're not in top 3.

Is that what I just read?

[miokomioko]

Yyyeaaah. It's actually more likely you'll get your seals from hamlet PUGs than to magically find a linkshell full of people who have nothing better to do than help you.

[Churchill]

I guess I was confusing when I said 4-5 hours total for 9 seals. It really was an all day venture. I suppose I also didn't mention that I received help from other linkshells where I knew people who were just there to help me out. I did have my magic lamp and had JUST defeated jafar so things were looking good for the prince of thieves.

The question is, would a linkshell even take you if you don't have seals. The answer is, I don't see why not, as it isn't a huge investment of time if you are only catching one person up and the rest of your shell needs nothing but gear.

[Xanthe]

magically find a linkshell full of people who have nothing better to do than help you.

Funny, that how my linkshell works. People need help with something, we do it.