Comments from the Devs

[Cichy]

Bottom line is, if you have a linkshell that is dedicated to getting relics you can obtain one fairly quickly. If you dont, you gotta fight RNG in PUGs which is very frustrating too many. Also, Ifrit Extreme is almost impossible with a PUG. Problem is that 1.0 had very little content and everyone thinks they should be handed a relic. Not being elitist or anything but I think there should be content that is hard to get for an average player. However, 1.0 was maybe not the best place to add it. Though, it's what the playerbase asked for.

[miokomioko]

I don't believe they should have content that is considered 100% out of reach by a casual player. It should at least be obtainable over a very long time by a casual player, allowing them to constantly be able to make at least some tangible progress. Then, design the content so someone with a highly skilled group of friends can speed up said process by a large amount by doing shorter, but much more difficult tasks. Most of the elitism in games revolves around being first anyways. Everyone is generally happy as long as the casual end of the spectrum isn't too easy.

I think a majority of content should work on something similar to this, so a player doesn't look at a cool new item placed in the game and doesn't have a sense of hopelessness and realizes that they couldn't possibly ever get said item because of their playtime/lifestyle/etc. Instead, they can start working towards it, however far away it may be, and if they stay subscribed to the game and pay Square-Enix enough money over the years, they'll be able to finally get it. $_$

[Grey Jorildyn]

The playerbase (read: voices of the casual crowd) often asks for hard stuff not realizing that what is actually just hard for good players is impossible for them because they suck, don't have the resources to clear the content, etc etc.

Then they proceed to bitch and moan about it (read: what they asked for).

[Fievel]

If you're not farming the coins you're buying them and someone else has had to deal with that RNG for you. It's still RNG.

And good point about CC. I remember doing a few runs back when the quest was new and they insisted on skipping all the chests to get through as quickly as possible for the 17 minutes. That's why I thought you didn't have time to get the 5 chests.

Your entire post is just whining saying RNG fucked you over and that's why you don't want a relic when in reality it's just too hard for you. Shit you don't even know where fucking darklight comes from apparently.

Typing from my phone at the moment, but once I'm home from class ill go into more detail about your stupidity, kay?

[Alkar]

I think speed runs are not going away, they're just no longer requirement to get chests?

If they're not required for chests there's no point in even having them. Yoshida posted that info after the complaints regarding speed runs so I'd say they're pretty much gone. Relic chests will probably have a totally different requirement altogether.

[solracht]

Not to beat a dead horse, but we might have different definitions of "casual". Some people in my relic group only logged in to do relic stuff and then logged out due to work/RL/etc (I'd consider that casual playing). Now, this was an 8man static group and we had to stop once someone had to go, so there might've been some pressure to overstay in the group sometimes, but in a normal sized LS this would've been no problem since people could've been replaced once they had to leave, so I think my point stands.

If your problem was time but you were a good player then I don't believe much content was out of reach: FFXIV wasn't FFXI where getting loot involved either 3 hours of camping or a few days of preparation (popsets, etc). For the most part, you go into the instance, you leave the instance less than 30min later, and you repeat this until you have to go. While the relic quest wasn't as simple, it's been done by people with limited playtimes too. You just had to join a decently-sized Linkshell, and I don't think all of them (if any) required you to stay logged on 24/7.

Imo, the brick wall into content was how terrible the learning/PUGing scene was in most servers, so most people without LSs were out of luck unless they had a bunch of friends.

Also, plenty of people decided to hang out in places that had no future or didn't want to bother wasting money in melds because of the state the game was in (which surely added to the "I can't get anything done" feeling), but I don't think content is to blame for that.

[Gokulo]

If they're not required for chests there's no point in even having them. Yoshida posted that info after the complaints regarding speed runs so I'd say they're pretty much gone. Relic chests will probably have a totally different requirement altogether.

They might create other purpose for it. Otherwise why even leave dungeon timers there.

[Khrno]

If they're not required for chests there's no point in even having them. Yoshida posted that info after the complaints regarding speed runs so I'd say they're pretty much gone. Relic chests will probably have a totally different requirement altogether.

I think speedruns might remain in the game, not as a chest/completion requirement, but as an achievement. Like Ifrit and Moogle speedrun achievements, that once you got them, there was no point on trying again, although Ifrit usually just died in 4-5 minutes anyway. For example there could be an achievement for going through floors 1 to 5 of the Crystal Tower in 30 minutes, but that would left out many of the content of those floors.

They might create other purpose for it. Otherwise why even leave dungeon timers there.

So people won't stay inside a dungeon for 24 hours AFKing.

[SilverBreeze]

Typing from my phone at the moment, but once I'm home from class ill go into more detail about your stupidity, kay?

Can we skip that part? Thanks.

[Sephiroth]

Your entire post is just whining saying RNG fucked you over and that's why you don't want a relic when in reality it's just too hard for you. Shit you don't even know where fucking darklight comes from apparently.

Typing from my phone at the moment, but once I'm home from class ill go into more detail about your stupidity, kay?

Erm no? The RNG has not fucked me over because I didn't bother with it when I saw how ridiculous the hamlet RNG is. To suggest fucking hamlet is difficult just destroys and point you were trying to make. The parts I weren't bitching about, IE the non-RNG primal fights are the hard part of the quest not spamming hamlets, materia or beastman coins for as long as you can tolerate.

I fully intend to get all the relics for the classes I play, I've just been waiting for something less retarded which ARR is looking like it will be.

Also I know where darklight comes from, I was just unaware that to get chest 6 to pop you had to get the other 5 to pop. I thought clearing the dungeon in 17 minutes was enough to pop that chest. Darklight was around before the relic quest so it's not unreasonable to assume that extra chest was only added for relic purposes with a 17 minute time being the only criteria to pop it.

I look forward to your "more detail".

[Rocl]

Did you do dungeons after A Relic Reborn was released?

[Fievel]

Can we skip that part? Thanks.

Out of all the pointless and stupid arguments people have here this is the one you jump in and stop? My god.

[Sephiroth]

Did you do dungeons after A Relic Reborn was released?

I did them shortly afterwards to help when people were trying for the salt or whatever for the first time and they seemed to think 17 minutes was enough. There wasn't much info back then. I faded away from the game shortly after because of hamlet being terrible.

[Alkar]

They might create other purpose for it. Otherwise why even leave dungeon timers there.

Dungeon timers have a completely different purpose really. FFXI had plenty of timed events and there was no speedrun reward (other than being able to farm extra stuff).
This time Yoshida said the raids will be bigger and you'll have to choose what to do, that alone makes speedruns kinda pointless because there's no universal objective. Salvage is probably a decent example of what they're trying to achieve.

[Deuce]

This time Yoshida said the raids will be bigger and you'll have to choose what to do, that alone makes speedruns kinda pointless because there's no universal objective. Salvage is probably a decent example of what they're trying to achieve.

So long as they don't follow the exact same formula that Salvage used then I'm ok with that.

[miokomioko]

Yeah, to be honest, it's kinda' a bad idea to force a group to pick who gets to benefit from the event and who doesn't.

[Cichy]

Yeah, to be honest, it's kinda' a bad idea to force a group to pick who gets to benefit from the event and who doesn't.

I agree, it's another thing I dont miss from XI. Farming usukane feet for someone 20 times in a row because they dont have a piece yet. Personally I really liked how you could do speed runs in 17 min with a more skilled group of players. After doing AV for the 50th time it was nice being able to lower the time you spent in there.

[Churchill]

The playerbase (read: voices of the casual crowd) often asks for hard stuff not realizing that what is actually just hard for good players is impossible for them because they suck, don't have the resources to clear the content, etc etc.

Then they proceed to bitch and moan about it (read: what they asked for).

I'll expand on this and address the post it addresses: There should be no item in the game that is a drop that is impossible to get in a timely manner through constant attempts and victories. For example, if I do The Aurum Vale 50 times I should be able to have the item I wanted from The Aurum Vale. I beat the content, I get the item.

Now, if the content is so difficult that 1% of the playerbase gets the item, then great. Difficult content is good, and if you can't beat it 3 years from now when you're level 65 to get it (and it is subsequently useless) then that is an issue to reflect upon yourself regarding how much effort you want to put into a game, and if you are really any good or if your "linkshell" is the one fucking you.

[Churchill]

Not to beat a dead horse, but we might have different definitions of "casual". Some people in my relic group only logged in to do relic stuff and then logged out due to work/RL/etc (I'd consider that casual playing). Now, this was an 8man static group and we had to stop once someone had to go, so there might've been some pressure to overstay in the group sometimes, but in a normal sized LS this would've been no problem since people could've been replaced once they had to leave, so I think my point stands.

If your problem was time but you were a good player then I don't believe much content was out of reach: FFXIV wasn't FFXI where getting loot involved either 3 hours of camping or a few days of preparation (popsets, etc). For the most part, you go into the instance, you leave the instance less than 30min later, and you repeat this until you have to go. While the relic quest wasn't as simple, it's been done by people with limited playtimes too. You just had to join a decently-sized Linkshell, and I don't think all of them (if any) required you to stay logged on 24/7.

Imo, the brick wall into content was how terrible the learning/PUGing scene was in most servers, so most people without LSs were out of luck unless they had a bunch of friends.

Also, plenty of people decided to hang out in places that had no future or didn't want to bother wasting money in melds because of the state the game was in (which surely added to the "I can't get anything done" feeling), but I don't think content is to blame for that.

Almost no one in my linkshell played more than from 1800-2100/2130 each evening. I know that a lot of Grey's LS is the same way.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Indeed, total working man's LS, but we recruit for skill. It really didn't take a lot of time if you knew what you were doing. Not sure why this is still an argument.