Comments from the Devs

[Dirge]

Absolutely nothing, but it wouldn't be a simple day on the OF if someone didn't bitch and create an uproar over something ridiculously anodyne.

thats why..OF never fails to amaze me (in bad way)

[Eagleheart]

Alpha OF forums are incredible. Half the alpha invites so far have been wasted on XI addicts who haven't the self-awareness to realize they've been led around by the nose by XI Dev Team for a decade.

There is so much I want to complain about right now. ._. I cannot stand the OF denizens.

[Spider-Dan]

Exactly right, but time will tell if others who left early share your sentiment that post-Tanaka 1.0 Raids were comparable to excellent raids in other games.

So if we just wait long enough, people who never participated in these events... will be able to give a more informed opinion on them?

I know that the FF fans who stuck around with the game enjoyed the content. That's not my point, because the few people that stuck around and enjoyed the content cannot financially support a brand new game by themselves, now matter how much they want to.

In other words, if the people who were actually around to play these events enjoyed them, it doesn't count because they were still around.

Well, when you put it that way...

[Lucavi]

So if we just wait long enough, people who never participated in these events... will be able to give a more informed opinion on them?


In other words, if the people who were actually around to play these events enjoyed them, it doesn't count because they were still around.

Well, when you put it that way...

Not breaking up your post because I can address it both ways. Yes. People who didn't stick around sticking around this time are the key to the game's success. People who never played 1.0 playing 2.0 is the key to the game's success. If you can't see that just having 1.0 players paying for 2.0 isn't going to keep the company in the black, I can't say much else, really.

You don't please them, you don't make enough money to keep servers around. It is what it is, love it or hate it.

[Cichy]

I don't know who's saying that. I think we all know 6,000 players cannot support a MMO like this. I'm just saying that people who enjoyed post 1.23 are not just the FFXI hard core masochist SE fanboys.
I couldn't stand 1.0 when it launched. I quit playing after maybe a month and picked it up post 1.23 and it was a world of difference. There has been other players who's 1.0 experience entirely consists of post 1.23 that voice their opinion.

[Lucavi]

No one said you are. I know you aren't some OF idiot, and I'd never claim that you were. I said you aren't SE's current target, because you're already going to buy the game.

Admit it. You were going to buy the game before Alpha was announced, simply because Yoshi-P was on-board. They have your money. This isn't about you. This isn't about pleasing you. You were already pleased enough to continue to pay them.

[Cichy]

However, I do agree with you that the general consensus and perception 1.0 is the failure that Tanaka gave us. There are still bunch of trolls and fanboys that got into alpha but I've seen alot of invites go out into the hands of people that will make the difference. Many of which are probably intimidated by the other crowd. All I'm hoping for is they enjoying the alpha and spread the word.

[Lucavi]

And we're on the same team with that. I'm not your enemy. I'm the enemy of XI White Knights.

[Lordender]

However, I do agree with you that the general consensus and perception 1.0 is the failure that Tanaka gave us. There are still bunch of trolls and fanboys that got into alpha but I've seen alot of invites go out into the hands of people that will make the difference. Many of which are probably intimidated by the other crowd. All I'm hoping for is they enjoying the alpha and spread the word.

Don't see how 2.0 fails unless the content is really bad and horribly bland at this point. The systems are solid for Alpha, the game play is pretty modern. The mechanics thus far seem to be a lot farther than I expected and there is still a beta to be had where many improvements can be done to the game.

I think the "elitist" crowd is going to ultimately be disappointed, I just don't see them making all the content only doable by 2-3% of the playerbase. I think what we'll see is three difficulties.

1. face roll, puggable, designed with content finder in mind.
2. Normal mode, a little harder, few more mechanics than content finder encounters.
3. Hardmode, extra mechanics, damage, health tacked on.

Hardmode will probably only be doable by 2-5% of the population that does endgame.

[solracht]

They already said there are two modes, one for content finder and one for organized groups.

Also I'm willing to bet, anyone expecting content as hard as Warcraft's hardmodes is going to be disappointed. Maybe later down the road, but I don't see them using resources on a small % of the population early on.

[Lucavi]

I know Blizzard has been publicly pissed in the past when they've gotten back results from a previous expansion and saw that less than 10% of the playerbase raided X or Y event. They view it as a waste of time and resources to make content that so few people actually see. Of course the hardcores hate that kind of logic, but I have to agree it with it from a company standpoint. The teeming masses are who are keeping your lights on, not the 2% of hardcore guys and gals.

[Churchill]

Fortunately for us, SE's own mechanism for testing content has already been stated.

They put it to their gameplay testers, they make it continually harder until their gameplay testers have severe difficulty beating it, then they make it orders of ten harder because if their gameplay testers can beat it then they know we'll have no problem with it.

[Spider-Dan]

People who didn't stick around sticking around this time are the key to the game's success. People who never played 1.0 playing 2.0 is the key to the game's success. If you can't see that just having 1.0 players paying for 2.0 isn't going to keep the company in the black, I can't say much else, really.

But that's not the question at hand.

The question is, "Has Yoshi created enjoyable endgame content?" The answer from (some of) the people who have actually played the endgame events he has created was, "Yes, I thought they were pretty good." Your response is that by virtue of being a 1.0 subscriber, their opinion is necessarily invalidated. That makes the entire question pointless.

Furthermore, the idea that the only people who are qualified to evaluate the quality of 1.0's endgame content are people who never played it... that's just absurd. (And giving them "more time" to evaluate something they never played changes nothing.)

If you want to just declare that all 1.0 content (start to finish) was broken and unplayable and point at the scoreboard (subscribers) as proof, then do so. But don't say that the people who actually played it are automatically unqualified to critically evaluate it. That's as insulting as it is ridiculous.

[Lucavi]

But that's not the question at hand.

The question is, "Has Yoshi created enjoyable endgame content?" The answer from (some of) the people who have actually played the endgame events he has created was, "Yes, I thought they were pretty good." Your response is that by virtue of being a 1.0 subscriber, their opinion is necessarily invalidated. That makes the entire question pointless.

Furthermore, the idea that the only people who are qualified to evaluate the quality of 1.0's endgame content are people who never played it... that's just absurd. (And giving them "more time" to evaluate something they never played changes nothing.)

If you want to just declare that all 1.0 content (start to finish) was broken and unplayable and point at the scoreboard (subscribers) as proof, then do so. But don't say that the people who actually played it are automatically unqualified to critically evaluate it. That's as insulting as it is ridiculous.

I don't care how insulting you think it is, because the point stands: he's not making this content to keep happy the people that already were a lock to pay for the product. He's making the content for everyone, but a far larger share of that "everyone" pie goes towards both those who left scorned and those who never tried 1.0 in the first place.

I see the point you're attempting to make, but its an irrelevant point. If you want the feather in your cap, though, just to be able to able to say "I was right on this point", then go right ahead and take it. Its yours. I'm dealing with the end result, not petty points along the way.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't care how insulting you think it is, because the point stands: he's not making this content to keep happy the people that already were a lock to pay for the product.

You do realize that within the category of "people willing to continue pay for the product," there are still people who are and are not happy with it as it stands, right? You should be intimately familiar with this concept from your many years of monthly payments for XI.

It's just silly to insist that the only people capable of evaluating a product are those who were not deluded enough to actually use it. I don't know if I could find a more blatant example of circular logic if I tried.

[Oreth]

Not going into too much details my biggest gripe so far is the current battle system. and the GC... Im not sure how anyone is enjoying it at present. Its too spammy and generic just like any of the other MMOs out there. One thing I really enjoyed towards the end of 1.0 is that the battle and combo systems needed some good thought behind them. Be interesting to see how things turn out in Beta should I get selected but we will see.

Given we have seen a battle video im sure its open to publicly talk about it.

What are peoples thoughts on what they have seen in the video and to an extent without going into too much details (breaking NDA) of those that have tried it.

[Cichy]

It's too early to say. The level cap is 20 but the pace of combat is way faster than 1.0. People are comparing their experience of 1.0 endgame with lvl 20 in alpha which is like comparing apples to oranges. Gotta wait till beta.

[Lucavi]

You do realize that within the category of "people willing to continue pay for the product," there are still people who are and are not happy with it as it stands, right? You should be intimately familiar with this concept from your many years of monthly payments for XI.

Were those people "not happy with it as it stands" willing to stop paying as a result? Did they stop paying and playing?

You're making my point for me, no matter how "silly" it is.

@Oreth: They've got a lot of work to do on it, but beta should be pretty different. I will say (Vids out so its probably not NDA) that there are many, MANY ways around the "generic" feeling you're describing, one being making certain moves reaction-based (locked until a specific criteria is met, such as a critical hit) and talking certain moves off of the GCD with caveats. A good example (battle system-wise, not necessarily damage-wise) of this is WoW's Hunter, post-WotLK. They changed hunter's resource from Mana (MP) to Focus (basically TP). Doing this allowed for them to have certain moves able to be fired at a continuous level, while threading other abilities in around it. Its a constant array of abilities, but its not like the current version where the one, single ability that is strongest is spammed with reckless abandon.

Another version would be the Pyromancer in Rift: certain moves that have a LONG casting time (Pyroblast), and as such, are not suitable to be used in any normal heated battle, can be made instantaneous through certain perimeters being met, or even having the cooldown refreshed through certain perameters. For example, a seven-second pyroblast, that does massive damage, can be made insta-cast on another spell's critical hit. Thus, you'd use other abilities on the global cooldown (or other instant abilities) until you've "unlocked" the ability to use a long-casting ability quickly.

There's a lot more to it (such as making certain moves cost no resource if they're "unlocked" in the proper way), but the point stands. SE has many, MANY ways to work a GCD system if they open their eyes and think with their heads. I'm looking forward to beta to see what they come up with.

[Oreth]

Its not the pace I really have a problem with to be honest ... I dunno its hard to explain but I just dont get that feeling of FF combat from things right now... Doesnt seem to be any intelligence behind it..

[Lucavi]

What is "FF" combat? Auto attack until 100% tp, then a single WS? That sounds like that "Final Fantasy Feeling" that the OF was bitching about a few months back.

Explain yourself. o.o