Comments from the Devs

[arus2001]

I don't really like fall damage. I know in Rift, it's almost a bit too sensitive and practically makes using faster mounts a risk in some degrees of travel. So, if the fear is shortcuts, you put up fences/walls/whatever people can't jump over/go through. If you want to give bosses "knockback" mechanics, you can do other things like the floor below being a pool of lava or filled with aggressive critters you'd have to fight your way out of. Basically, there are ways to offer consequence without the insta-death shit.

[Elcura]

But what does this consequence serve exactly? It just seems like an unnecessary thing in the grand scheme of things, or at best, something that doesn't really warrant that much attention in the first place as there are much more important issues to be looking over.

Getting away from dangerous monsters doesn't seem like a big issue to me... so long as it isn't turned into an exploit to kill them more easily with "hit run repeat nauseum" tactics. But there are certain safe guards that have been implemented to avoid this problem I believe.

There should definitely still be some boundaries in place for sure, in cases where jumping off would be "skipping" parts of the dungeon or what not. It's all a matter of when a boundary is appropriate, or better yet, design the dungeon so that there is no sense of invisible boundaries in the first place (like Mario Galaxy per say) or maybe even some sort of inherent environment restrictions that are appropriate for the location.

Either way, I just hope it doesn't become a huge debate or anything. It's really such a small thing.

Look, you asked what the point of fall damage was, I told you a couple of examples. Whether you agree or want that shit is none of my business and certainly not worth a debate about since Grey and Lucavi have stated more reasons for fall damage.

Now it's up to you to accept it or not, but don't forget there are reasons why. The rest of fall damage is up to design, whether to fence off or kill from large impacts etc, but there needs to be a consequence or a blocker. And since people don't like invisible walls (seriously, you assholes were complaining about it, now you want it? I'll never understand) fall damage is the best way to keep people in line.

[Alkar]

But we're not Jedi If we wanted to be really petty we could say DRGs should jump of higher things, but it's not worth it.

Fall damage is a good idea, if not from a balancing point of view, purely from an immersion one.

Edit: Letter from the Producer No. 40

ARR will be in an Astral era. Setting it in the 7th Umbral would have been much cooler :/

Not sure why it would've been cooler, we've already experienced the end of the 7th Umbral era and it's the era everyone wants to forget anyway (especially the copy/paste terrain).

[miokomioko]

So, if the fear is shortcuts, you put up fences/walls/whatever people can't jump over/go through.

This is the primary reason they are implementing fall damage. People hate all the walls and shit. However, when it comes to edge-of-zone, it's probably always going to be a cliff/lake/wall/fence/etc. to coral us into the area. I don't expect them to put a lethal drop at each border.

If you want to give bosses "knockback" mechanics, you can do other things like the floor below being a pool of lava or filled with aggressive critters you'd have to fight your way out of. Basically, there are ways to offer consequence without the insta-death shit.

There doesn't have to be instant-death at all. Ideally, there will just be a tiny, subtle risk factor involved in traveling, primarily in running away from aggro where one might have to gauge their current HP and the distance of the drop to decide if it's worth it to take a significant short-cut or if they should slow down to more carefully navigate through some Garlaige floor holes or blow right through them.

I know it's not an action game (as Yoshi-P has made clear when referring to the battle system not being pushed towards Rift's), but I'm all for a small addition that makes people put a little more thought into their actions.

[Manako]

My short-lived romp in everquest featured noob pre-teen me learning how to walk in the wood-elf area, their town was built in the trees and pretty much I'd be falling off left and right. Was terribly embarrasing and I quickly rolled a different character.

That being said they should implement an intoxication mechanic so we can have drunken races around perilous zones, that always sounded like too much fun :D

[arus2001]

I know it's not an action game (as Yoshi-P has made clear when referring to the battle system not being pushed towards Rift's), but I'm all for a small addition that makes people put a little more thought into their actions.

Ultimately, it sounds like the only "con" is people getting away from aggro, as I otherwise offered alternatives to fall penalty. Meanwhile, there's nothing stopping the mobs from just running off, too. Or just outright reset and go full HP. If the crux of the argument is "people need to pay for their mistakes!" then championing fall damage mechanics is a pretty dick move. Trust me, I understand the realism angle and not people wanting to go certain places, but with Aion, Rift, and GW2 as basically the 3 MMOs I've played where such is present, I've never felt my gameplay "enriched" because of it. Instead I just lose time and possibly pick up a repair bill. Mind you, I'm okay with some gravity effect for a duration based on the distance of the fall, but not death or even significant HP loss.

[Elcura]

You do realise that your alternatives (more fences and blockades) are exactly the things people DON'T want? How are you going to deter people from jumping stupidly and randomly all over the place if there isn't a consequence for doing so? Your boss suggestions can also be done in tandem with fall damage so there's no reason to take it out because you've designed your boss encounter better.

Seriously, why is this even a thing? Two people on this forum don't understand the purpose of fall damage, next argument please.

[Lucavi]

This is the primary reason they are implementing fall damage. People hate all the walls and shit. However, when it comes to edge-of-zone, it's probably always going to be a cliff/lake/wall/fence/etc. to coral us into the area. I don't expect them to put a lethal drop at each border.


There doesn't have to be instant-death at all. Ideally, there will just be a tiny, subtle risk factor involved in traveling, primarily in running away from aggro where one might have to gauge their current HP and the distance of the drop to decide if it's worth it to take a significant short-cut or if they should slow down to more carefully navigate through some Garlaige floor holes or blow right through them.

I know it's not an action game (as Yoshi-P has made clear when referring to the battle system not being pushed towards Rift's), but I'm all for a small addition that makes people put a little more thought into their actions.

WoW actually has some lethal drops at the edges of their maps in some of the TBC areas, lol. Farm near edges at your own risk on PVP servers...

Its just going to take some SE fans to get out of their little safety bubble-boy bubble when it comes to stuff like this. Change is a comin', whether some people are ready for it or not.

Edit: And hell, we've got a guy who has played other games with Fall Damage and still doesn't understand the point of it. Take a jump off the cliffs in GW2's WvW area and ask again why there needs to be fall damage.

[Rocl]

why should monsters be allowed to aggro me on my mount

[Lucavi]

Because bird is delicious. I'd aggro you too. I get to kill you (or rape you if you're catgirl), and get a delicious plate of chicken?

Now if we start riding malboros.... that's a bit of a different story.

[arus2001]

Edit: And hell, we've got a guy who has played other games with Fall Damage and still doesn't understand the point of it. Take a jump off the cliffs in GW2's WvW area and ask again why there needs to be fall damage.

No, I get it. The counter usually boils down to, "Waaah, they'd get away and/or I'd have to run far to get back to where I was!!!" Is deciding whether or not they're really worth killing/chasing ever come up? Because from the sounds of it, they just remove themselves from the battle for a good bit in those settings where it's supposed to "mean something" in the event. Meanwhile, said games could also have you plunge of hundreds of feet into water and take no damage at all. Surely something must be done about that, because I can recall some epic flops when swimming hurting like a mofo.

Striving for realism is a slippery slope. While I do like some groundings to my fantasy, there comes a point where sometimes striving for realistic compromises enjoyment. There are other ways to punish people if it's supposed to mean something. Those whining about walls or fences just need to shut the fuck up and realize their digital world is flat and you can sail off the edge without such things. Yes, invisible walls suck, but you also don't see me clamoring for those. Meanwhile, I still derive no satisfaction from taking fall damage or making others take it.

[Rocl]

Because bird is delicious. I'd aggro you too. I get to kill you (or rape you if you're catgirl), and get a delicious plate of chicken?

Now if we start riding malboros.... that's a bit of a different story.

explain away goobbue mount aggro.

checkmate, atheists.

[miokomioko]

You must be the only one without a fetish for grey, mossy, cottage cheese ass.

[Lucavi]

explain away goobbue mount aggro.

checkmate, atheists.

Cashgrab.

Your move.

[Elcura]

Meanwhile, I still derive no satisfaction from taking fall damage or making others take it.

Why do I take damage from this enemy hitting me? Why do I lose MP when casting spells? Why do I not just get up straight away when I die? Fall damage is not supposed to be satisfying.

[SilverBreeze]

Lord of the Rings Online has an interesting mechanic that deals with falling damage. If you fall a certain distance, you take a debuff.

Falling has caused an injury, slowing movement and impairing the ability to defend against attacks.
Sets Run Speed to 60%
Unable to evade.
Unable to parry.
Unable to block.

It lasts from 5 to 60 seconds depending on how far you fell, and if you fall far enough that you would take more than 60 seconds of the debuff, you die instantly.

[Sup3rB4d]

I feel like you guys should have known you weren't going to get into any logical argument when he actually suggested MORE barriers than we already have.

[arus2001]

Except for the fact "satisfaction" s your entire argument when hinging it on teaching people something, as the knowledge should correlate to progress (in not doing it again) and MMOs are progress-driven games.

Otherwise, enemy damage can be mitigated by armor/buffs that improve as we're better geared. Resource costs for things like spells or WS are there to justify their spikey nature if actually balanced well. You're just being retarded with death there. Falling otherwise has its own inconveniences and I still put it on the dev's plate to design areas more intelligently if they're afraid of the exploit boogeyman.

[Elcura]

Except for the fact "satisfaction" s your entire argument when hinging it on teaching people something, as the knowledge should correlate to progress (in not doing it again) and MMOs are progress-driven games.

Otherwise, enemy damage can be mitigated by armor/buffs that improve as we're better geared. Resource costs for things like spells or WS are there to justify their spikey nature if actually balanced well. You're just being retarded with death there. Falling otherwise has its own inconveniences and I still put it on the dev's plate to design areas more intelligently if they're afraid of the exploit boogeyman.

The correct answer actually is: Consequence!

Fall damage teaches you quickly that if I jump from here to there, I will either take damage or die or something else horrible, so am I willing to deal with the consequences to get from A to B faster? If the answer is yes, jump away, if the answer is no, then don't. Intelligent design isn't a replacement for mechanics you don't like, it all serves a purpose.

And the point of it all is that there needs to be consequences and downsides to taking extraordinary actions, otherwise no game would be fun. If you take out all the negative consequences of doing shit then doing it doesn't have any impact.

[Waraji]

I'm up for that. Someone make a thread on the... nvm.