Comments from the Devs

[Shuichi]

To those interested. Yoshi P. has made a lengthy post regarding all the combat muck-a-muck going on. It's in the Rein translation thread with today's date, divided into two parts.

[arus2001]

I wouldn't peg things so much on instant gratification as it is a skewed sense of reward metrics, often toward the grind end. People can and do handle repeating certain content a few times as long as it's enjoyable. It's when stuff is "farm status" that you've gotta wonder why they really have to keep doing it. To some degree, yeah, maybe the devs can't keep up fast enough. And for smaller franchises, this can be understandable. I'm not really sure what Blizzard's excuse is, or even SE's with XI prior to the XIV vampire. Their games are generating the money. The money just isn't going back to the game first. Heck, Rift is also facing this issue with Trion splitting into other things like Defiance, Warface, End of Nations, and ArchAge.

This is perhaps where I should say the "RP" needs to get put back in MMORPG, but that's a concept generally scoffed at for reasons of association with ERPers, bad players overall, and absolutely zero encouragement from the devs to do so. Instead, it's pretty much all about finding the next item to acquire, and you'll never get that if you're not out killing mobs, running dungeons, or playing auction house tycoon. Basically, RP "needs" more power of their respective game worlds. Players need the ability to build their own dungeons, write their own quests, and tell their own stories. Sure, you'll still need Dev/GM supervision to avoid instances of Slutty McBalloontits and her quest into pr0n for theme-breaking antics, but the players are pretty much an untapped resource in the themepark model. As for general scripting, things like events need multiple outcomes where the results are noticeable (but not necessarily punishing) to encourage people to try different things. Heck, established players could even become apart of the company's team, earning themselves a free sub/bonus perks in exchange for regularly holding events just to keep players on their toes. Mind you, they should never have the power to totally grief, but in the long run, no single day should ever be the same.

[Rionel]

To those interested. Yoshi P. has made a lengthy post regarding all the combat muck-a-muck going on. It's in the Rein translation thread with today's date, divided into two parts.

Wait, is this on the OF or the Beta forums?

[Grey Jorildyn]

I agree that players are an "untapped" resource while the game is active. However I'd also question the desire for the average player to create content. Most players are casual simply based on their availability. I am unsure a significant amount of those same players are gonna want to pour their time into making a dungeon, quest, or adventure for others in the 2-3 hours they have to "play". I for one have 0 interest in this. I can think of maybe 1 or 2 players out of the hundreds I know that would logon just to do this. It's a great idea but at the end of the day I'm not sold on it being feasible really.

[Stanislaw]

Wait, is this on the OF or the Beta forums?

Would be in the Beta.

[Eagleheart]

Must... light... retarded forum denizens on fire...

So much irritation. -.- Sooooo much irritation...

[arus2001]

I agree that players are an "untapped" resource while the game is active. However I'd also question the desire for the average player to create content. Most players are casual simply based on their availability. I am unsure a significant amount of those same players are gonna want to pour their time into making a dungeon, quest, or adventure for others in the 2-3 hours they have to "play". I for one have 0 interest in this. I can think of maybe 1 or 2 players out of the hundreds I know that would logon just to do this. It's a great idea but at the end of the day I'm not sold on it being feasible really.

I wouldn't expect everyone to embrace it, no, if only for reasons of time constraint as you mentioned. Rather, you'll get some that jump on it right off. The good creators will likely be recognized via word of mouth (or in-game rating systems if applied to generated content) and offer inspiration to those on the fence/feel they could do better-types. Every single player out there doesn't actually need to create content, as there is indeed a time limit on what people can experience. This is basically meant to pad content between official releases. As such, big patch hits. The hardcores blow through it in a month or less, usually only doing it for grind purposes. And we know these people love to bitch about having nothing to do afterwards. Now, you'll also have some who will feel they're "too good" for this stuff and just ignore it outright, and honestly they can right fuck off as they're part of the problem of grind-centric methodology. But those more open-minded can at least have a pool of content to wade through to take the sting off that wait of future releases. More casual players may also find themselves with always something to do, even if between their "routine" activities or a day where they maybe have more time to play than usual.

There's also a potential competitive element to this where you can have people creating PvP maps or just a general "Best New Quest Chain" type affair. It just kind of takes me back to my days in the D2 mod scene or even custom maps in Starcraft. Without those, I would've never played either game as long as I had. And with the right tools, you may even see the players being better designers than the devs themselves.

[kisada]

To those interested. Yoshi P. has made a lengthy post regarding all the combat muck-a-muck going on. It's in the Rein translation thread with today's date, divided into two parts.

can you point me to which forum section?


nvm, found it, general

[Churchill]

here is some text because just the video would be worthy of a temp ban hours after the fact

[Patriarch]

here is some text because just the video would be worthy of a temp ban hours after the fact

thanks for this

[Kelenae]

snip
here is some text because just the video would be worthy of a temp ban hours after the fact

Funny how some of that is still relevant today.

[Amiricle]

I agree that players are an "untapped" resource while the game is active. However I'd also question the desire for the average player to create content. Most players are casual simply based on their availability. I am unsure a significant amount of those same players are gonna want to pour their time into making a dungeon, quest, or adventure for others in the 2-3 hours they have to "play". I for one have 0 interest in this. I can think of maybe 1 or 2 players out of the hundreds I know that would logon just to do this. It's a great idea but at the end of the day I'm not sold on it being feasible really.

While such players would certainly be in the minority, as for its feasibility just have a look at what was done with Neverwinter Nights. A lot of the player made content was actually better than the dev made stuff. As for a more current example, while not an mmo, there's LittleBigPlanet which has massive amounts of player made content.

[Grey Jorildyn]

While such players would certainly be in the minority, as for its feasibility just have a look at what was done with Neverwinter Nights. A lot of the player made content was actually better than the dev made stuff. As for a more current example, while not an mmo, there's LittleBigPlanet which has massive amounts of player made content.

You're talking apples and oranges. Dare I say D&D players enjoy expressing their creative muscle far more than your average mmo grinder. Run the numbers and get back to me. Also devkits make a huge difference.

[jwang]

Didn't XI have that kind of "player create dungeon" schtick with MMM? We all know how well that panned out...

[Eagleheart]

Didn't XI have that kind of "player create dungeon" schtick with MMM? We all know how well that panned out...

*Psst.*

(We don't talk about MMM.) ._.

[Purrrfect]

*Psst.*

(We don't talk about MMM.) ._.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6931/mmminterest.jpg

Took forever to find that sig on here again...

[Fievel]

I was looking for it and couldn't find it anywhere -_-

[Charismatic]

Not to mention that it isn't the same thing at all... MMM doesn't really allow you to customize things to a meaningful degree... at least not enough to make it interesting.

[Eagleheart]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6931/mmminterest.jpg

Took forever to find that sig on here again...

That is awesome.


And it's so true!

And why? Because Teh Balance that's why.

[Grey Jorildyn]

Too bad that was like three years ago! nobody cares about mmm.