Comments from the Devs

[Mina]

I can count on one hand how many THF hands and RDM hats dropped in my (early) dynamis history.
But we would see no less than 2-4 WAR every run. I can't remember an instance of a 0 drop (I'm sure it happened) but there were many times we'd walk away with 2 WAR relics and that's it. MANY. So many times I can picture my shell right now going 'lolwar, I hate dynamis' and logging off after the run.

Edit: I want to also point out there were times where the drops were bountiful but how is that fair that we did the SAME exact amount of work and end up with a difference of 0 to 7 drops?

[Pharaun]

The running joke in my dynamis shell was that as soon as War dropped it was time to pack it up and go home because nothing else was going to drop the rest of the run.

[arus2001]

The fundamental backbone of most MMORPGs (and most other popular games) is combat/death or whatever you wanna call it. Yoshi said himself that combat is a feature games revolve around. To expect otherwise means you're playing the wrong game (I am fairly certainly many people who bitch on the OFs are actually playing the wrong game).

Yeah, I have no delusion about a MMO's combat system being its backbone. I just want interacting with it to be more robust. The general logistics of the raiding game is ultimately what results in some form of conflict from an individual player, like time they can play, relationships (or lack thereof) with those they play with, and a reasonable reward rate when they can participate. Unfortunately, there's no magic formula to make the raiding environment work for everyone 100% of the time. As such, you need things to fill in those gaps unless you're okay with (risking) losing that subscriber--as those subs do go toward funding the raiding game, too.

[Hyan]

Why is everyone so certain SE can't pull in people new to MMO's? I think that's what every game tries to do, but they are all generic and honestly I don't know what demographic they would even target aside from trying to feed off of WoW players.

FF demographic is huge and this game isn't really losing to the single player entries in any way at this point. Then again we had a strong franchise flop with TOR though SW isn't as popular in the gaming department. Plus the fact Bioware tried to sell a game to the masses with shitty graphics from <2005. I'm sure that didn't help them.

If ARR is left to the general MMO crowd it will tank like the rest of them, sure.

[Sephiroth]

Until some company comes up with a revolutionary idea for end game content that is better than raiding we are stuck with it. If you or I can't think of anything better can you really be disappointed if game developers can't either? Before the level cap there's a variety of content but it's mostly about EXP so once you're at 50 you won't want to do things like FATE. Story quests will always be there but they will always be limited in number. Raids work best, giving you a series of obstacles to work through with challenging battle content and good rewards. The only difference between a raid and open world content is it is instanced, which is nicw because it allows mechanics that wouldn't exist in open world. I can understand people who played WoW for years being sick of raids but it's still the best system. Whoever figures out something better will create the next "WoW" in terms of popularity. Until then enjoy what you have.

[miokomioko]

it's mostly about EXP so once you're at 50 you won't want to do things like FATE.

They have said FATEs will eventually reward items to participants based on their participation, which should be obvious since they've said Hamlet Defense will be a FATE (as well as HNMs like Odin). They wouldn't dare restrict it to Exp/Gil for that very reason.

[Takiwaki]

They have said FATEs will eventually reward items to participants based on their participation, which should be obvious since they've said Hamlet Defense will be a FATE (as well as HNMs like Odin). They wouldn't dare restrict it to Exp/Gil for that very reason.

Yea most likely be a token type system, but no drops at all.

[Foxer]

Token system is nice. It beats RNG.

[miokomioko]

Yea most likely be a token type system, but no drops at all.

I recall Yoshi mentioning in an interview of some sort that they planned on actual items being rewarded at the end, specifically mentioning that the items would be for each player individually (as opposed to a loot pool), like how it was handled for Walk of Echoes.

[ArchDizzle]

Yeah, I have no delusion about a MMO's combat system being its backbone. I just want interacting with it to be more robust. The general logistics of the raiding game is ultimately what results in some form of conflict from an individual player, like time they can play, relationships (or lack thereof) with those they play with, and a reasonable reward rate when they can participate. Unfortunately, there's no magic formula to make the raiding environment work for everyone 100% of the time. As such, you need things to fill in those gaps unless you're okay with (risking) losing that subscriber--as those subs do go toward funding the raiding game, too.

This may be a dumb statement as I am the first to admit I am not a MMO guru. (I am an above average player but have only really played XI and XIV and dabbled very lightly in any other mmo's)
Wouldn't something like seperating difficulty on endgame dungeons or variations of them close the gap between hardcore an more casual players. Shitty example but have the hardmode of w/e dungeon that requires more people/time/skill/gear for it have either near 100% droprate on the given gear/weapons it drops while having the lesser version require less people/time/skill/gear (but not be dumbed down to were skill isnt needed and any tard can do it while half asleep) and instead of a great drop rate make it rare to get the item but 100% drop on an item that once you have a certain amount can be traded for that gear. (I know XIV did implement something like this) If that isn't sufficient just have the gear from hardmode be a high drop rate with the best stats while gear from the lesser version drop an alternate to that gear with good stats.

I know as someone who has less playtime then when XI was out and prefers to do things in smaller groups of personal friends who equally have limited time to play it allows me to expierence more of the end game scenarios and at least have above average gear while the hardcore still get to have all their top tier equipment.

Edit:
I am too hoping FATE at 50 is where we will get world NM's and the like that have good drops so people have another thing to spend time doing.

[Takiwaki]

The thing is with what you are saying, is being hardcore really has nothing to do with hard or easier content.. It really has to do with time time spent in game. The fact is even if they make an easier mode people will always go towards the faster way of getting the items. Why cant I be a casual player and still have time to, with proper scheduling, do the hard dungeons with a good ls. This is how I did it and was able to get most stuff done in 11, and I do not consider myself hard core at all.

I do agree end game FATEs and NMs should def be greatly rewarding.

[Elcura]

It really has to do with time time spent in game.

I've been saying this for ages. People talking about casual and hardcore like it doesn't just mean "How long I can play for."

[ArchDizzle]

I get what you two are saying about hardcore and I was lumping in time played with the people who are mostly torn between its not hard/challenging enough and those who prefer to have it a little easier since their limited in numbers/skill/time. I see them as two sets. The people who have all the time to dedicate and burn through any content in a very short period, and the people who have a decent chunk of time to invest and have a large group of people they usually run with and accomplish the same things as the first group just at a more normalized pace.

I think all you can do for the first group is find alternative time sinks, the content isnt going to be able to keep up.

[Rionel]

Is it just me, or is there a lot of CNJ complaints or something on the Beta forums? Then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

From "bring back grinding on open fields" to "hardcores unite", I don't know what to think anymore. >_>;

[Stanislaw]

From "bring back grinding on open fields" to "hardcores unite", I don't know what to think anymore. >_>;

Frankly, I'm not too opposed to the idea about grinding mobs on the open field.

At the very least, I think the complaint the OP made on "<snip, NDA> EXP (+92%) for Lv 47 Mob with Full Party" thread on the Beta Forums is very well founded (can't be very specific due to NDA).

If you went through the trouble of killing something that high of a level with a full party, I think it ought to be rewarding somewhat.

[Alkar]

I'm pretty sure exp from mobs has been set to low on purpose to force people into raids for Beta and test those instead.
And yeah, Yoshi-P did mention FATEs dropping gear and I'm sure he also mentioned a point system for those as well.
We also have materia as an alternative for gear progression.

[ArchDizzle]

Normal party-xp should be as it always is and allow you another avenue to level, no sense in making it a non option.

[Eagleheart]

Frankly, I'm not too opposed to the idea about grinding mobs on the open field.

At the very least, I think the complaint the OP made on "<snip, NDA> EXP (+92%) for Lv 47 Mob with Full Party" thread on the Beta Forums is very well founded (can't be very specific due to NDA).

If you went through the trouble of killing something that high of a level with a full party, I think it ought to be rewarding somewhat.

I concur. It's a simple enough change to make, and has a negligible effect on the rest of us who are not so keen on XI-style XP parties any more.

The same about open-world NMs, really. What harm does it do to give the folks what they want and have some random NMs a la 1.x hovering around with a couple of nifty drops?

It doesn't do any harm to us to have more options. ( >>) We know for certain that it won't be replacing currently planned content. It cannot be that hard to add to the game coding/resources. None of us are going to die screaming if there's a 2-hour window fire drake over near Halatali that has a nice sword for mid-levels, or near-endgame levels.

(o.O ) Loth as I am to give any credence to the OF, they have it right when they say that making these small changes isn't going to bring ARR to a screaming halt.

EDIT: Full disclosure, I'm not unbiased in this. I do feel that it wouldn't be a terrible thing to add NMs/make grinding viable, but primarily I just want the OF to shut the hell up about it.

If it means enabling them to make their much-vaunted eight to ten hour crab grind parties, so be it. Takes only a little tweaking of the game coding, and suddenly the grind fanatics shut up. We don't have to listen to them, they don't have to do dungeons (or obtain gear, but that's aside the point), Community Team is spared the constant headache of new grind threads, Dev Team pleases a section of the playerbase by altering a couple dozen lines of coding, everyone's happy, nobody's complaining, sweet peace and quiet...

EDIT 2: ...everyone's happy, that is, aside from the folks harping about how male players need a bigger package.

But there's naught to be done about that. >_>

[Rionel]

Actually, it's funny... I was part of that big party thing on the Beta forums, mostly because I was just curious about exploring areas. Me and my friend quickly left though when we realized how fruitless it was. Not to mention the soap box talking was starting to surface...

I had no idea it would be used as an argument to make that thread though. Oi.

Either way, I think a break from that place is in order. Whew.

[Stromgarde]

I wouldn't have a problem to even having open-world exp having a bonus over dungeon experience, since in the latter you have the added plus of getting gear upgrades.