Comments from the Devs

[Lucavi]

Is it just me, or is there a lot of CNJ complaints or something on the Beta forums? Then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

From "bring back grinding on open fields" to "hardcores unite", I don't know what to think anymore. >_>;

I had a few complaints about Conj myself, but I know the class does fine at any point where others are taking the hits. My complaints will be more suited around the PVP aspect than anything, as not being able to do -anything- while moving is going to get them absolutely destroyed by classes like Archer or Dragoon who can spam at range while on the move.

I'll withhold my judgements until I can get my hands on the PVP engine itself.

[Takiwaki]

Playing devils advocate and gonna disagree on certain things.

About Open world NMs they are trying to steer away from that idea of claiming, or camping all together why then even give the option. I tend to disagree with having them altogether, I rather it be part of FATE or maybe have NM leves you can pop with our party if you want something challenging. I mean FATE nms are exactly the same as roaming nms, just everyone can take part.

Also about open world xp, that's what the hunting logs are for and why its available for each class separately. I honestly think grinding mobs as an xp party is absolutely stupid, after 10 years of 11 its time for something new, and should never be considered as content. I mean why not just do dungeon runs, leves or hunting logs in a party? To me having to grind shit for sole purpose of xp instead of xp being a result of playing the game's content normally, is just backward and archaic.

I know alot disagree but people need to learn to move on and accept a different game, its not freaking 11.

Pvp will have its own skills so hopefully it wont be too bad.

[Enygma55]

Tis the natural order of PvP, the healer usually gets targeted first.

In defense of Conj in a 1v1 setting, they do have repose to sleep targets, so if u cant kill a conj in like 30 sec before u run out of TP, it will be tough to keep up dps on a healer. They also can freely sprint around having no other uses for TP.

I also agree with Taki, if you can take a party and go grind open world mobs for xp, might as well enter a dungeon and grind for XP while getting rare/ex drops. The lower lv dungeons are designed for 4 people only.

[Sigurd]

I dont think its THAT easy to just put open world xp in the game. Sure, you can fix the xp from mobs and what not, but you have to consider having proper camps, locations, targets etc. Even if it is easy, I'm sure the sheer amount of work that must be done up till release wouldnt allow for this to be implemented. If it involves any type of hardcore work and consideration on their part, they have MUCH more important things to divert their resources too (like fixing levequests, certain FATEs, etc). Also, my personal opinion is that it doesnt "fit" with everything else they are trying to do, specially with an open claim system.

I think the major complaint may be more along the lines of some type of content that allows ppl to form long-lasting relationship. In FFXI, you see alot of ppl who are fond of the memory of sticking with friends they met grinding in the dunes... but the idea of setting up a pt and grinding just doesnt work anymore nowadays. If SE can resolve this in some other way, problem solved.

[Elcura]

My main problem with open world grinding as a viable solution is that it takes people away from doing other content or even just spending their time even a little more wisely. You can have a party full of people who want to do their hunting logs (which I imagine will replace open world grinding) which is effectively the same thing. If hunting logs require more than 10 kills of a mob type and/or you have to kill quite a few then you can effectively replace open world grinding with just that. You can see how much EXP you will be awarded for your efforts while also gaining the EXP from killing monsters anyway and EXP chains.

All in all, people just aren't thinking of the shit they already have in this game and the ways it fills a purpose. People should focus more on making sure hunting logs are worthwhile rather than just doing an old thing again.

[Takiwaki]

To tell you the truth most of the friends I made in 11 that I still keep in touch with are all people I met while doing stuff at 75 end game at the time, def not during the dunes phase. Merit parties, hunting new blu spells when they added, nyzul, taking pics for zeni, cop promy runs, making a set for missions etc, but for some reason not leveling low level jobs.

And yes it blows my mind that people jumped into beta, and proceeded to try and form parties and grind their way up. Then complain that its not working

[Churchill]

Apparently I knew Waraji in the dunes of Oct/Nov2003.

I not only don't remember him but don't even have the vaguest recollection of the "story" he tells. DUNES5EVER

[miokomioko]

And yes it blows my mind that people jumped into beta, and proceeded to try and form parties and grind their way up. Then complain that its not working

Funny thing is, Yoshi specifically said about the Beta:

Quests from the main scenario will be available, but because these require travel to other nations at level 15, they will be limited. Sidequests are designed to accompany the main scenario, so it may be a bit of a pain to level up after that point.

[Waraji]

Apparently I knew Waraji in the dunes of Oct/Nov2003.

I not only don't remember him but don't even have the vaguest recollection of the "story" he tells. DUNES5EVER

Was more along March 2004. You were already on your valefor-iconic-churchill Dark Knight. It was a short run to Gusgen Mines from Dunes. Was probably on one of my old alts though...

[Grey Jorildyn]

I used to think to myself "yeah, just add the opening world grinding if people want it. It doesn't hurt anyone. Besides it would add one more way to exp in addition to all the other ways."

Then I thought about it for awhile and changed my mind. It does hurt everyone. It hurts the evolution of the FF online community. Fuck open world grinding as an option. Yoshi is right not to include it. Aside from it being a total cave-in to the OF morons, it would be irresponsible for him to include it into his game since it is a huge step backwards. He wants to not only make a modern game but bring the community with him, show them the proverbial light as-it-were.

The idea is flat out incompatible with quest leveling. When we create new stuff we replace "legacy" ideas. At first we build onto them but eventually the idea morphs into a new, better idea. That's what happened to the pointless monster grind when quests came on scene, and I hope that old idea never sees the light of day again. In certain XIV players wanna continue to live in the dark age then fuck 'em. I don't want them screwing up my future game for their dumbass nostalgic reasons.

[Kachiko]

I hope Yoshi is taking note of the 'Fate NM system' that's happening in GW2 right now. I know the issue is more or less guesting in that actual server members don't have priority over them, but if the servers can't handle the load of players zerging Odin, and it becomes nothing more then a lag-fest zerg, it's going to get really old really fast.

Also, on grinding mobs for exp - GTFO; it's 2013 and there's no amount of nostalgia that can overcome a long out-dated method of leveling. I don't mind doing it for log hunts, and as much as I liked pulling, as BRD, for 200+ exp chains in FFXI, I've no desire to go back to that mindset; it was exhausting as fsk and as much as it became an in-joke with my LS (okay, last pull. WFT, we said last pull. STOP PULLING KACHI. Oh, uh, sorry [has 5 mobs slept at camp now and re-spawns popping soon], I don't want to ever see it again.

[Rionel]

I used to think to myself "yeah, just add the opening world grinding if people want it. It doesn't hurt anyone. Besides it would add one more way to exp in addition to all the other ways."

Then I thought about it for awhile and changed my mind. It does hurt everyone. It hurts the evolution of the FF online community. Fuck open world grinding as an option. Yoshi is right not to include it. Aside from it being a total cave-in to the OF morons, it would be irresponsible for him to include it into his game since it is a huge step backwards. He wants to not only make a modern game but bring the community with him, show them the proverbial light as-it-were.

The idea is flat out incompatible with quest leveling. When we create new stuff we replace "legacy" ideas. At first we build onto them but eventually the idea morphs into a new, better idea. That's what happened to the pointless monster grind when quests came on scene, and I hope that old idea never sees the light of day again. In certain XIV players wanna continue to live in the dark age then fuck 'em. I don't want them screwing up my future game for their dumbass nostalgic reasons.

I think this is part of my current reluctance to try and advocate open world grinding as well.

Once it becomes a viable option for people, it is most likely that they will try and stick to it, since it part of the game they used to (and maybe still) so feverishly love. Even if dungeons were more attractive to do, I don't doubt the certain stubbornness of that crowd to simply ignore them for the sake of doing what they've always been doing because that's what they grew up on or are more comfortable with.

It just seems like one of those things that people need to let go and move onto something different and progressive from the old.

[Black]

I used to think to myself "yeah, just add the opening world grinding if people want it. It doesn't hurt anyone. Besides it would add one more way to exp in addition to all the other ways."

Then I thought about it for awhile and changed my mind. It does hurt everyone. It hurts the evolution of the FF online community. Fuck open world grinding as an option. Yoshi is right not to include it. Aside from it being a total cave-in to the OF morons, it would be irresponsible for him to include it into his game since it is a huge step backwards. He wants to not only make a modern game but bring the community with him, show them the proverbial light as-it-were.

The idea is flat out incompatible with quest leveling. When we create new stuff we replace "legacy" ideas. At first we build onto them but eventually the idea morphs into a new, better idea. That's what happened to the pointless monster grind when quests came on scene, and I hope that old idea never sees the light of day again. In certain XIV players wanna continue to live in the dark age then fuck 'em. I don't want them screwing up my future game for their dumbass nostalgic reasons.

Agree 100%

outdated Ideas just to fill ther selfish reasons, while its actually hold the game back.

[Shimbo]

They should make a Event where you use a hourglass thingy to zone in and you grind tons of mobs that don't give exp and like 20 of them pop at a time. This event should have shitty droprates, lots of death, and enormous amounts of drama. They should call this event "Hardcore"

[miokomioko]

I still would rather have a Bestiary that functions like XII's to encourage/reward the occasional mob grinding and, more specifically, exploration (outside of the Hunting Log since that is class-specific). There's a treasure trove of achievements, right there. Just make higher level mob kills have more impact on progress to unlocking their bestiary entry (complete with rotatable model, common drops, elemental affinities, weaknesses/resistances, etc.). Sure as hell sounds like the perfect source of Minions.

/alla

Speaking of exploration, was there not an official quote somewhere that said they were going to reward EXP for completing/uncovering maps?

[Enygma55]

I believe they did. I ended up exploring every area and its pretty fun to run around opening up new sections. My OCD compelled me to reveal every area of the map.

[Shimbo]

I still would rather have a Bestiary that functions like XII's to encourage/reward the occasional mob grinding and, more specifically, exploration (outside of the Hunting Log since that is class-specific). There's a treasure trove of achievements, right there. Just make higher level mob kills have more impact on progress to unlocking their bestiary entry (complete with rotatable model, common drops, elemental affinities, weaknesses/resistances, etc.). Sure as hell sounds like the perfect source of Minions.

Maybe Trophies? Something along the lines of Virtues in LOTRO? The system def has a lot of room for growth.

[Alkar]

At this point I think the "Bestiary" is simply going to be one of the iOS/Android apps they're planning for XIV.

[Sephiroth]

They have said FATEs will eventually reward items to participants based on their participation, which should be obvious since they've said Hamlet Defense will be a FATE (as well as HNMs like Odin). They wouldn't dare restrict it to Exp/Gil for that very reason.

I like what I'm reading. Hamlet defence under FATE system would be awesome, and I was its biggest hater in V1.

[Churchill]

What a glorious day when seals are random to the entire group of participants, they have a 0.01% drop rate, the FATE for Hamlet spawns once an hour, and the tears begin to well.

>>It was my privilege.