Comments from the Devs

[Grey Jorildyn]

@Grey

If they added a loot table to open world mobs then what's the dif? Whether you grind in a dungeon or grind crabs for hours it's still a grind. I'm not on one side or the other. I'm just having a hard time understanding why people give a shit so much about open world being an option period.

If there are die hard nostalgia seeking masochistic people looking to open world grind why not let them?

Well the difference is they won't add loot tables to open world mobs. That will just open another can of worms.

Don't understand me incorrectly--I actually don't "give a shit". I can just see where Yoshi is coming from and I 100% agree with not adding it for the reasons he believes and I already stated as well. If they added open world grinding, I might use it myself since I can get a static group easily, but not as often as those clamoring for it (it would be the ONLY way they'd level).

The die hards can already open world grind if they want. In fact the xp/hour rate would probably be better than it was pre-ToAU in XI, it's just that the TNLs are also way higher. I heard number like 10-12k/h being thrown around during the alpha (people leveling from Lv.6-10 I believe). Too bad that's like 4 or 5 quests worth of xp at that level...

I agree with the others though, just leave the argument at this point. The decision has already been made, for better or worse.

[Deelo]

To be fair, Male Miqote complaints where in the 1.0. beta OF, as were Highlander females. Mancat petitions also came out once 1.0. officially flopped and went free, and Yoshi first came onboard.

I refuse to give this current crop of retarded OF pondscum the credit for mancats.

I think his point was that Mancats were inspired by what people wanted to see in-game. He wasn't focusing on the group of people that started. I also believe at some point (maybe years down the line), there will be a medium to please the WoWers and the old-school grind lovers. Maybe something along the lines of creating dungeons/instances that can be entered at level 1...*Shrug* The number of people that prefer open-world grinding is way larger than I thought.

[Sigmakan]

Or perhaps, people think that if they're noisy enough they might get what they want in some future update since open area group grinding isn't something that would ruin the experience of all the other people that want to stick to "WoW quests leveling system". Sometimes there is a way to make everyone happy. I wouldn't be that surprised if Yoshi and SE realized that a year or so down the road. More ways to get shit done, more people happy, more customers.

Maybe so, but for now they want to focus their attention elsewhere. Making open-world grinding isnt as simple as plopping down a bunch of spawn points. Dev resources will need to be sunk into it. I'd rather have them first focus on their vision of xping.

[Oreth]

I dont even know why i read this thread anymore...

[arkaine23]

Can anyone comment about the Heart of the Swarm's effect on the beta OF posts? Not in beta, so can't see. Seemed to alter the content in 4chan ffxiv threads the last day or two.

[Sephiroth]

What I don't get is why people think FATE isn't open world grinding. The rewards can be huge and make it more worthwhile than dungeons at certain levels. Most of these people complaining probably don't have a class above 15.

[Raldo]

What I don't get is why people think FATE isn't open world grinding. The rewards can be huge and make it more worthwhile than dungeons at certain levels. Most of these people complaining probably don't have a class above 15.

FATE isn't open world grinding because they're generally very short and have decently large time gaps between them. You could open-world grind on trash mobs while you're waiting on a FATE to appear I guess, but the FATE itself is no more equivalent to open world grinding than a quest that has you go out in the field to kill 3 squirrels.

Other reasons:
Nobody is grouping for FATE, that shit is automatic.

You're more than welcome to say that FATE makes up for open world grinding because of the exp reward, but open world grinding, it is not.

Note: I'm 100% for Yoshi-Ps lack of open-world grinding.

[hocus]

To be honest, I prefer open world grinding as well. It is not because of ffxi either, because even in single player rpgs (and i'm sure i'm not alone on this) , I grind levels for "fun" even when there is no benefit (like the game scales to your level anyway). Its just something I enjoy doing in rpgs, and its even better when I can do it with friends (mmorpg). With that said, I believe its okay to have your preference, but I don't understand the people that are whining over it. Its a game, everybody (on the OF) just need to calm down and accept that the direction of the game is going down a different path.

I personally wouldn't mind if open world grinding was a notch behind questing / dungeon grinding, or maybe even 2 notches. If that is the direction they are going, at least it can be considerably slower but still respectable. This would keep the dungeons populated with min/max players but also allow me and my friends to open world grind some nights and have fun together and still progress respectably. That being said, its a difference between stating your opinion and going "omg this game is going to fail and suck because it doesn't have this, this, and this like ffxi had". The Official forums is better than comedy sometimes.

[Edelweiss]

Can anyone comment about the Heart of the Swarm's effect on the beta OF posts? Not in beta, so can't see. Seemed to alter the content in 4chan ffxiv threads the last day or two.

Minor drop; not like /XIVg/ though. Of course, to make up for their lack of shitposting, the furfag element has been pushing pretty hard (on 4chan). Also that swirl guy keeps evading bans.

[Lucavi]

What I don't get is why people think FATE isn't open world grinding. The rewards can be huge and make it more worthwhile than dungeons at certain levels. Most of these people complaining probably don't have a class above 15.

Because its not under your control. FATE respawns when FATE respawns, and you can't "camp" them reliably enough, like you can with monsters, to make it worthwhile to the OF complainers.

Plus there's no technical forced grouping requirement, which is way too mainstream and modern for the purists. If its not a party of 6 with a dedicated tank and healer, its not what they want.

[Agito]

Dungeon grinding is actually alot better than grinding on mobs in the open world even if doing the same ones over and over again become boring, it is still less boring than the alternative. Dungeons offer players the ability to learn how to play in a group setting, their class and all of that good stuff much more efficently. I'm not to sure but isn't there also going to be dungeons desighned for 8 people like in version 1.0? If so then that would be experience points heaven i'd imagine.

[Sephiroth]

FATE isn't open world grinding because they're generally very short and have decently large time gaps between them.

I thought that about FATEs too, then I levelled up past 20. Can't say much more due to the NDA.

But I suppose Lucavi is right, the people who want proper open world grinding want it for the restrictions it places on it such as perfect party setups. The strange part is I don't remember any of that in V1. It was either unorganised AoE spam at high levels or an LS member power leveling you at lower levels. Leves didn't even need a tank, it was a case of kill it before it does any damage. Or looking further back it was 15 man parties whacking stuff for random EXP and even trying to keep the mob alive for more of it.

[Mina]

I grind levels for "fun" even when there is no benefit

Not to be mean but I stopped reading right there. Because that's borderline crazy talk.

The whole reason why grinding exists is because [back in the day] developers/publishers wanted to put the words '80 hours of gameplay' on a box to excite unsuspecting gamers. Most of us kids (and adults) judged a game by its box art or bolded words on the box.

Grinding is old school. It's not content at all. It's there to wall off hours and hours of time which equates into some form of accomplishment. And lots of us have been conditioned to feel that way about it including myself. I feel oh so accomplished when I spend hours in Disgaea leveling up weapons. But I also walk away and take breaks.

And just because the loud minority is clamoring for something doesn't mean Yoshi-P is going to change his mind when he's well aware of what the silent/not-silent majority wants.

[hocus]

Dungeon grinding is actually alot better than grinding on mobs in the open world even if doing the same ones over and over again become boring, it is still less boring than the alternative. Dungeons offer players the ability to learn how to play in a group setting, their class and all of that good stuff much more efficently. I'm not to sure but isn't there also going to be dungeons desighned for 8 people like in version 1.0? If so then that would be experience points heaven i'd imagine.

That's all a preference and an opinion. I'd much rather be in the open world then doing dungeons over and over (as I have done both). Just like I'd much rather fight something in open world rather than be in a instance (without the competition though). What is "boring" to one person can be "fun" to another. Its okay to have a preference and state it, but I don't agree with all the dramatic outcries from people that enjoy the same things I enjoy. They make all people that enjoy or prefer that type of game-play look bad.

[xopher]

Grinding is old school. It's not content at all.

I'd like to introduce you to the Etrian Odyssey games.

[Takiwaki]

Grinding levels in a single player rpg where you manage and entire party of characters is really very different than grinding in an mmo, why even compare them?

Also many are overlooking how much will have to change with the entire battle system if they were to push open world grinding as a viable option. You will have to take into consideration mob spawns, placement, redo the entire claim system, worry about areas where leve mobs will pop, areas for Fate events clashing with exp zones, totally screwing over the hunting log, and quest mobs. Its not just a matter of increasing the xp and letting us grind...

[Grey Jorildyn]

Leveling up is not content. Grinding is an action.

[hocus]

Not to be mean but I stopped reading right there. Because that's borderline crazy talk.

The whole reason why grinding exists is because [back in the day] developers/publishers wanted to put the words '80 hours of gameplay' on a box to excite unsuspecting gamers. Most of us kids (and adults) judged a game by its box art or bolded words on the box.

Grinding is old school. It's not content at all. It's there to wall off hours and hours of time which equates into some form of accomplishment. And lots of us have been conditioned to feel that way about it including myself. I feel oh so accomplished when I spend hours in Disgaea leveling up weapons. But I also walk away and take breaks.

And just because the loud minority is clamoring for something doesn't mean Yoshi-P is going to change his mind when he's well aware of what the silent/not-silent majority wants.

I didn't really mean "no benefit", I meant you get levels but the game scales to your level anyway so in some cases it is actually to your detriment to grind levels. Being a higher level unlocked abilities on boss fights that they wouldn't have used if you was at a lower level, thus making it harder. Their reason for it and your opinion is not relevant, because the fact remains that some people enjoy it (thus why this argument is even a topic). Your opinion is like someone saying (in real life) "fishing is no fun, you just sit there and do nothing, and wait for your line to move its soooo boring". Yet there is so many people that enjoy fishing each and every day. Point being just because you have a strong opinion and preference don't mean its the only opinion in the room.

I don't get the dramatic outcries from it on both sides of the spectrum. What if it didn't affect your gameplay at all (if your against it), then why would you even care? For instance what if they didn't change mob placement, fate, or anything else, and just raised the exp gained by some %. This caused the rate in which you could potentially level to be 1/3 (max potential) of dungeon/quest grinding and made the players determine their own camps and places to exp if they wanted to exp in open world. In what way would that affect your dungeon grinding?

[Kami]

(...) I used to dream for balance in XI, and for justice in XI, back when I cared. None of them never came true, but hey, they were some nice dreams...

Now I get where all the bitterness and aggressivity you're showing toward those that loved oldschool FFXI comes from lol

[Takiwaki]

One can have bitterness and aggressiveness also toward something we loved. Playing FFXI was basically angry sex, we all know this