Comments from the Devs

[Lucavi]

I'm pretty sure everyone is going to port in at end-game for FATEs that have a chance to drop gear and fight big mobs. You won't see much of it going on while leveling up unless they're tuned out of whack and wind up giving too much XP or something, which can be easily adjusted.

Who knows, though. Its all conjecture at this point, but I certainly enjoy not having to hoof it everywhere, especially when quest chains call for running back and forth between entire zones at a time.

[Skai]

GW2's waypoint system is the best thing to happen in an MMORPG in my opinion. Not everyone have the luxury of time. Any time saved is great convenience. XIV moving toward that with aetheryte is awesome.

[arus2001]

Yeah, my only gripe with GW2's WPs were the costs and the fact they got higher as you leveled.

[Sephiroth]

I think for a lot of people on the OFs MMOs just aren't for them. They complain if they have to do content more than once because apparently it's now boring. So what they want is a dungeon that will give them 5 levels in one run as well as all the gear it comes with. Just so they don't have to repeat it. They also want enough of these that they can do a different dungeon with each class. How on earth can an MMO like that ever work?

[Enkidu]

Repeating content is boring, what the fuck? I'm okay with "hard mode" instances and stuff like that, which would be the "real" instance whereas the easy mode instance is just filler for dolts, but why should people want to repeat content, that's just silly.

[Buffy]

Did my first FATE yesterday, it was a lot of fun.

My only MMO reference is ffxi, which I love but recognize it has flaws, FATE is like campaign + beseiged at a quicker pace and easier to participate in with better rewards. I got 1700 exp at level 7 (no idea if that's a lot or a little) just killing stuff with other people.

FATE is cool.

[Sephiroth]

Repeating content is boring, what the fuck? I'm okay with "hard mode" instances and stuff like that, which would be the "real" instance whereas the easy mode instance is just filler for dolts, but why should people want to repeat content, that's just silly.

Anything is boring after you repeat it enough times, even the "hard mode" instances. The key is when it becomes boring. If content is so bad that it becomes boring after the first run then that content is a fail, and if the entire game is content like that then the game is dead, unless it's a single player game. MMOs can not survive on content people will only want to complete once, the developers simply can't churn out 2-3 new instances every day to give these people something fresh. And really, if you're the type to get bored after running it the first time and spend 99% of your game time bored you have to ask yourself why you're playing this game. Games are meant to be fun.

[Lucavi]

So content repeated is boring, but the "content" of grinding the same mobs to level cap again and again is somehow exempt from this because of "that Final Fantasy Feeling" or something?

Yeah, whatever.

[Draylo]

Repeating content is boring, what the fuck? I'm okay with "hard mode" instances and stuff like that, which would be the "real" instance whereas the easy mode instance is just filler for dolts, but why should people want to repeat content, that's just silly.

Have you ever played an MMO?

[Enkidu]

Anything is boring after you repeat it enough times, even the "hard mode" instances. The key is when it becomes boring. If content is so bad that it becomes boring after the first run then that content is a fail, and if the entire game is content like that then the game is dead, unless it's a single player game. MMOs can not survive on content people will only want to complete once, the developers simply can't churn out 2-3 new instances every day to give these people something fresh. And really, if you're the type to get bored after running it the first time and spend 99% of your game time bored you have to ask yourself why you're playing this game. Games are meant to be fun.

I really hate the excuse that "the developers can't make that much content". If I can expect 40-60+ hours worth of NEW content from a $60 single player game, why shouldn't I expect 10-15 hours of new content per month from an MMO with a sub.? The excuse used to be server costs and the ability to play with other people, that was 10-15 years ago. That excuse doesn't work anymore.

It's sad that people see this as a consequence of playing MMO's rather then a problem. There is absolutely no need for repeating content, it's one of the worst things about themepark [oops] MMO's. You can have great content that is not necessary to repeat, if you want to repeat something for the feels - be my guest.

So content repeated is boring, but the "content" of grinding the same mobs to level cap again and again is somehow exempt from this because of "that Final Fantasy Feeling" or something?

Yeah, whatever.

Yes, it obvious that not wanting to repeat content also means that I'm all for grinding. Good call, Lucavi - astute as always.

[Sephiroth]

I really hate the excuse that "the developers can't make that much content". If I can expect 40-60+ hours worth of NEW content from a $60 single player game, why shouldn't I expect 10-15 hours of new content per month from an MMO with a sub.? The excuse used to be server costs and the ability to play with other people, that was 10-15 years ago. That excuse doesn't work anymore.

Your $12 monthly fee or whatever doesn't just go to developing content, it also goes towards server maintenance and bandwith. These issues haven't magically become free over the past 15 years, and while technology has improved massively so have the server requirements to run such a massive game so it stays comparable. But even so you do get 10-15 hours of content per month for your sub fee, and way more. If you're only going to do content once then you've got yourself a game where you get a patch every 2 months and you play it for the first 2-3 days. They can't develop enough content to keep you playing the rest of the time, because they don't expect the content they make to be only played once. Of course there is some non-repeatable content by design such as main scenario and main quests but the content they spend the most development time on isn't designed to be thrown away after an hour. It sounds like you should stick to single player games.

[Alkar]

I wonder how low we can go with this. Next: we need a new raid every day, there's no excuse for this laziness!

[Grey Jorildyn]

I agree with the idea that because there is a subscription fee that we should "expect" some kind of content on a regular basis (in this case Yoshi has said 2.5mo patch cycles). However there is no contract we sign that says they will ever patch the game. It's all comes from the top-down and their motivation to churn out (quality) content implies they do so to keep your subscription fee. That said we should be satisfied that we're getting the "promise" of such a content cycle from XIV right now. It's a pretty good time frame between patches. It's yet to be seen if they will honor their own promise though. Let's bitch about it when they don't, eh?

[arus2001]

There's a middle ground between running a dungeon once and then the dozens of times that are seemingly "accepted" within the current dynamic. It might not seem so bad at a level cap with 3-5 different dungeons to pick from, but this also tends to mean a specific dungeon could have a drop you never see due to RNG. This gets even worse if they add lockout timers, so you're artificially forced to take longer. So, I dunno, the whole "trash pull, trash pull, trash pull, mini-boss, trash pull... ...boss" dynamic might be "fun" for some, but I don't think I've ever run a dungeon where people are doing it for the ambiance. It's killkillkilllurnotgoingfastenoughformekillkillkill . And rarely do I think this kind of grind consideration even factors in alts. If progression is balanced around one person focusing exclusively on a character for long periods, those with any common sense are unlikely to repeat the same grinds on a second character or more. Instead, yeah, they're more likely to start looking toward another game. I'm also of the mind that isn't a BAD thing, as it can help recharge your batteries and even bring back some fresh perspectives to make the game better. But if people are leaving on a sour note, then yes, they're less likely to return.

On the financial end, something like 250k users at $15/mo translates to $3,750,000. Forgive me for being of the mind that that is more than sufficient for hardware upkeep and employee costs. No, the problem a lot of companies with MMOs is that they trim from the profits to divert elsewhere, hurting their cash cow's potential. XI suffered this with XIV and arguably still is. Rift is going through it with End of Nations, Warface, Defiance, and ArcheAge. I'm sure money Blizz makes from WoW is doing to SC2, D3, and whatever other secret project they're allegedly working on. But just imagine if all of these games had free access to their own generated cash first. So, I'm not sure I buy the whole "takes too long" or "costs too much" line, especially in dealing with a system that should ideally have tools for quick development made... unlikely with a completely new game, thus understandably taking longer to produce.

[Lucavi]

Yes, it obvious that not wanting to repeat content also means that I'm all for grinding. Good call, Lucavi - astute as always.

I wasn't speaking in terms of you; I was speaking in terms of the OF idiots that are fine with grinding mobs but hate the idea of grinding content. They also act like Dynamis wasn't "content" and that they never grinded the shit out of it.

Calm down.

[Kelenae]

I wonder how low we can go with this. Next: we need a new raid every day, there's no excuse for this laziness!

The speed most players can go through content these days. Pretty much the case in all MMO's. People expect the impossible sometimes.

[Gulkeeva]

The speed most players can go through content these days. Pretty much the case in all MMO's. People expect the impossible sometimes.

Could do like warcraft did several times in several different methods.

They refer to it as "Gating" I think, anyway!
The first time, the "server" had to grind daily quests to progress the server reputation to unlock sections of a raid allowing further progress, outside people would be rewarded with better faction items, more quests, more gold etc
First few? servers to unlock the final raid completely (took several months) would get a special mount inside the raid, awesome gear from vendors and more daily quests for more gold (and the rep to get these items).

The next gating method was "do a quest to get a item off the hardest end raid boss of each instance, to access the next raid" style, it took many months for progress, I think it took nearly a year or so for a guild to even get access to the "final" raid instance?

The next gating method was just "wait 2-3 weeks, we unlock a section for you.

and then the next gating was a mix of grind rep and the waiting game (I think it was).

anyway there are always ways to stretch out a raid, either making it insanely hard or by introducing some game mechanic slowly that makes a fight easier till many can kill it (I'm sure people will remember the lich king buff thing, if you played wow)

[Alkar]

Could do like warcraft did several times in several different methods.

They refer to it as "Gating" I think, anyway!
The first time, the "server" had to grind daily quests to progress the server reputation to unlock sections of a raid allowing further progress, outside people would be rewarded with better faction items, more quests, more gold etc
First few? servers to unlock the final raid completely (took several months) would get a special mount inside the raid, awesome gear from vendors and more daily quests for more gold (and the rep to get these items).

The next gating method was "do a quest to get a item off the hardest end raid boss of each instance, to access the next raid" style, it took many months for progress, I think it took nearly a year or so for a guild to even get access to the "final" raid instance?

The next gating method was just "wait 2-3 weeks, we unlock a section for you.

and then the next gating was a mix of grind rep and the waiting game (I think it was).

anyway there are always ways to stretch out a raid, either making it insanely hard or by introducing some game mechanic slowly that makes a fight easier till many can kill it (I'm sure people will remember the lich king buff thing, if you played wow)

SE also did this with Abyssea. Some NMs and monsters only unlocked after certain conditions were met.

[Kelenae]

Could do like warcraft did several times in several different methods.

They refer to it as "Gating" I think, anyway!
The first time, the "server" had to grind daily quests to progress the server reputation to unlock sections of a raid allowing further progress, outside people would be rewarded with better faction items, more quests, more gold etc
First few? servers to unlock the final raid completely (took several months) would get a special mount inside the raid, awesome gear from vendors and more daily quests for more gold (and the rep to get these items).

The next gating method was "do a quest to get a item off the hardest end raid boss of each instance, to access the next raid" style, it took many months for progress, I think it took nearly a year or so for a guild to even get access to the "final" raid instance?

The next gating method was just "wait 2-3 weeks, we unlock a section for you.

and then the next gating was a mix of grind rep and the waiting game (I think it was).

anyway there are always ways to stretch out a raid, either making it insanely hard or by introducing some game mechanic slowly that makes a fight easier till many can kill it (I'm sure people will remember the lich king buff thing, if you played wow)

Ya i think i'll be ok with the Gating system if they do a good job with it. They can basicly do this for Crystal Tower right?

[Churchill]

wtb tears from people on servers who cant unlock anything