Comments from the Devs

[Churchill]

lol

[Churchill]

also most people who were bored/quit wow went to GW2 precisely because it was different.

whether or not they went back to wow or are looking for a new game that is similar (or not similar) is a different story.

[Lucavi]

Most people that leave come back because they find that different doesn't always equal better. Usually a new coat of paint is enough for most people, myself included. Its like saying I'm sick of Grid 2 because I played Top Gear 3000 for the SNES.

[Hyan]

It's the same genre, of course there's going to be similarities in the core gameplay. It seems to only be MMORPGs where people go and call every game within the same genre a clone of something else. Maybe because there's not dozens released every year, I don't know.

Because they play the same damn game for 10 years, that's why. And because the same damn game in question keeps re-doing itself every few months so there's no real reason to change the game unless it's "better" in a way that matters to them. In what other genre does this happen, Sephiroth?

The question "why should I play this game when I can play WoW" is a relevant one. Although a decreasingly relevant one since the game is starting to really show its age no matter the upkeep it receives.

[crux]

MMOs are labeled as clones largely because:

A) World of Warcraft is massively more successful than any other MMO in history. Very few MMOs have ever had more than a million subscribers, and besides WoW only Lineage and its sequel ever broke two million (the first broke three). World of Warcraft beats its nearest competitor in popularity over 4 to 1. When there's disparity of that magnitude, the successful game becomes the defacto point of comparison.

B) MMORPGs players often have play times of hundreds of days. I mean, I've known some players to put many hundreds of hours into a FPS game, but hundreds of days? It's simply a different league. It's a tough sell to say, "Tired of World of Warcraft? Try World of Warcraft: Final Fantasy Edition" with players that put years of their life into the former.

C) This one is specific to us, but I think Final Fantasy XI veterans have a heightened sense of "WoW clones" precisely because FFXI is such a different game. It's bollocks that the WoW model is the defacto MMORPG model, as there are plenty of other ways to make a MMO. Even if you're a Final Fantasy fanboy, you can see from the history of Final Fantasy itself that there are a lot of ways to do an RPG, so why the hell wouldn't there be a different way to do a MMO? Final Fantasy XI itself was molded from the steps of its MMO predecessors, but manages to stick out because of how different it is. Take a game like EVE Online and it's pretty clear that the quest leveling/rep grinding/raiding structure isn't the only way to make a MMORPG.

And as an aside, playing only Final Fantasy RPGs is absolutely fucking ridiculous. I'll admit I'm not such a fan of modern RPGs, but ignoring other RPGs entirely? Hell, what about other Square RPGs? They made Chrono Trigger, for god's sake.

[Lucavi]

I think the issue is less about "can it copy WoW" and "can it be well-made enough by today's standards to capture a market"? I think the latter is what the issue is. Crunched deadlines, aggressive, impatient shareholders, overworked dev teams; all of that leads to some shitty implementations of some great on-paper ideas, and has absolutely crushed more than a few MMOs over the last few years. AoC sounded absolutely amazing when it was being developed, but we all (or most of us who haven't only played XI and XIV) know why the game collapsed.

We may see another game like WoW if we can finally get a fully-financed project that has enough time to work out the kinks. It really doesn't happen, hence people just sticking with what works - WoW.

[Sephiroth]

Because they play the same damn game for 10 years, that's why. And because the same damn game in question keeps re-doing itself every few months so there's no real reason to change the game unless it's "better" in a way that matters to them. In what other genre does this happen, Sephiroth?

The question "why should I play this game when I can play WoW" is a relevant one. Although a decreasingly relevant one since the game is starting to really show its age no matter the upkeep it receives.

All of them? The core gameplay of an FPS is the same as it was in the 90s. The same for racing games, platform games, single player RPGs and god knows what else. That's because the core gameplay is what defines the genre.

These CoD fan boys have been playing the same game for what, 6 or 7 years now? Sure the game has a different title but it's essentially the same thing except instead of new content coming in expansions it comes in new titles. Even comparing to a different game in the same genre EG Halo, you're still running around shooting random people. If they took that gameplay away it wouldn't be an FPS any more. Likewise people have come to expect certain gameplay elements from MMORPGs, raiding and questing being two of them.

MMOs are labeled as clones largely because:

A) World of Warcraft is massively more successful than any other MMO in history. Very few MMOs have ever had more than a million subscribers, and besides WoW only Lineage and its sequel ever broke two million (the first broke three). World of Warcraft beats its nearest competitor in popularity over 4 to 1. When there's disparity of that magnitude, the successful game becomes the defacto point of comparison.

B) MMORPGs players often have play times of hundreds of days. I mean, I've known some players to put many hundreds of hours into a FPS game, but hundreds of days? It's simply a different league. It's a tough sell to say, "Tired of World of Warcraft? Try World of Warcraft: Final Fantasy Edition" with players that put years of their life into the former.

C) This one is specific to us, but I think Final Fantasy XI veterans have a heightened sense of "WoW clones" precisely because FFXI is such a different game. It's bollocks that the WoW model is the defacto MMORPG model, as there are plenty of other ways to make a MMO. Even if you're a Final Fantasy fanboy, you can see from the history of Final Fantasy itself that there are a lot of ways to do an RPG, so why the hell wouldn't there be a different way to do a MMO? Final Fantasy XI itself was molded from the steps of its MMO predecessors, but manages to stick out because of how different it is. Take a game like EVE Online and it's pretty clear that the quest leveling/rep grinding/raiding structure isn't the only way to make a MMORPG.

And as an aside, playing only Final Fantasy RPGs is absolutely fucking ridiculous. I'll admit I'm not such a fan of modern RPGs, but ignoring other RPGs entirely? Hell, what about other Square RPGs? They made Chrono Trigger, for god's sake.

Does it matter if you've played a game for 10 years or 1 these days? Look at the recent FFXI changes, making all those weapons people spent years on trash. A player could start now and catch up within 6 months. Making gear obsolete fast has become the norm, WoW has been doing it for years and it's looking like FFXI will now too. It's a lot easier to leave a game when the loss isn't so great, but on the other hand the game becomes more appealing to new players who won't feel they're 10 years behind. That always put me off going back to XI in recent years.

People may switch MMO with similar gameplay because as Lucavi put it, they want a fresh coat of paint. A new world to explore, fresh battle system, fresh ideas etc. But I guess these are the types who play new MMORPGs before running back to WoW. The trick is keeping them in your game. Most companies fall at the content hurdle.

Then you've got companies that try to do something different from the MMORPG norm and get ripped apart for lacking core features, you only have to look at FFXIV 1.0 for that. A good game should take what has worked well in the past and build upon it, not try to re-invent the wheel. Without that foundation you may attract those looking for something new but can they keep them? Additionally you won't attract those who want a new game but one they're familiar with the concepts of. I'm not sure if you can please both groups of people in the same game.

Chrono Trigger? You mean that game they never released over here? Sure that's no excuse these days but games just aren't as fun when you're playing them many years after their release. I don't play that many games in general these days, probably bought less than a dozen in as many years. Rarely do I try anything new in any genre, mainly due to time and the risk of spending £40 on something I won't like.

[Lucavi]

If you never got to experience Chrono Trigger back when it first launched, you have my sympathy. That game was a masterpiece.

[Lokus]

Chrono Trigger is still a blast to play even now. Makes me sad that an online game has yet to properly implement a Double/Triple Tech system from that game.

[Takiwaki]

Chrono Trigger is still a blast to play even now. Makes me sad that an online game has yet to properly implement a Double/Triple Tech system from that game.

Well this is kinda what limit breaks are supposed to be.

[Izzy]

MMOs are labeled as clones largely because:

words

This is a good, well thought out post. I haven't seen one of these in a while!

[Waraji]

This thread gives me hope in humanity as a robot species in the dystopian future.

[Wulfgang]

This game needs to come out for the sake of this thread. If I hadn't picked up a 3DS recently, I'd be a sad panda.

[Kachiko]

This game needs to come out for the sake of this thread. If I hadn't picked up a 3DS recently, I'd be a sad panda.

The threads a bit of an odd duck now; what was a thread, to specifically comment on Dev posts, is now more like a general discussion thread, that the occasional DEV post stirs up.

[Kelenae]

This game needs to come out for the sake of this thread. If I hadn't picked up a 3DS recently, I'd be a sad panda.

Ya i know. Swtor is holding me tell it comes out. I'm ready to drop it for this.

[Elona]

http://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/

PRIMALS

Bahamut

Held in duress for aeons within the lesser moon, Dalamud, the elder primal Bahamut broke free of his captivity when the celestial body was wrested from the heavens to descend upon the Battle of Carteneau. Once freed, the terrible being wrought fiery destruction across the length and breadth of Eorzea, his devastating rampage marking the beginning the Seventh Umbral Era. In the midst of the chaos, however, Bahamut was enveloped in a blinding white light and abruptly disappeared from the skies. None claim to have seen the primal in the five years since.





Odin

A fell knight clad all in black, Odin roams paths long forgotten beneath the canopy of the Black Shroud.
There are none now alive who know the truth of when or by whom this elder primal was first summoned into the world. Ever vigilant as he sits astride his mighty steed, Sleipnir, it is said that Odin is drivenly solely by the desire to do battle with worthy foes.






BESTIARY

Though a land blessed with vistas of indescribable beauty, Eorzea is also populated by a menagerie of formidable dangers. Slavering beasts, savage monstrosities, and restless spirits abound to beleaguer the intrepid adventurer seeking to explore this stunning yet perilous realm.

Chimera

The origins of this nightmarish combination of lion, goat, and dragon have been furiously debated. Some deem the creature a cruel jest of the gods, while others believe it the twisted creation of forbidden sorcery.





Torama

These predatory quadrupeds are feared for their unrivaled savagery. In the same manner as its close cousin, the coeurl, the torama subdues its prey by unleashing electrical shocks from the two whip-like appendages that frame its fang-lined jaws.





Golem

Golems are magical constructs of clay or stone that have been imbued with temporary life. Ancient tomes claim that the creation of these beings is only possible when the laws of nature are weakened by the chaotic influence of an Umbral calamity.





Dullahan

While commonly considered to be a variety of ancient golem, the exact nature of these hulking suits of animated armor is unknown. One theory suggests that they once clad men, and that the original wearer's soul lingered on after death, doomed to spend the afterlife in a prison of steel.





Mandragora

The enigmatic mandragora were first observed in the aftermath of the Seventh Umbral Era. It is not known whence they came, or if they even existed prior to the Calamity. There are those who insist that the diminutive seedkin are sentient, but further research is required to confirm such speculation.




Wyvern

The wyvern is a sinuous scalekin that cuts swiftly through the air on large, membranous wings. A less-imposing relative of dragons, wyverns often serve as frontline troops in the endless assault on the fortifications of Ishgard.




Ziz

The beautiful, vibrant coloration of this scalekin's feathers are a natural indication of its venomous nature. Infamous for supplementing physical attacks with poisonous breaths, it is also capable of impressive bursts of speed, owing to its muscular legs and the purchase afforded by its sharp talons.




Cyclops

The Cyclopes dwell in the western parts of Abalathia's Spine, and are immediately recognizable by the single eye that dominates their broad faces. Though thickly muscled and possessed of prodigious strength, these dim-witted creatures are often enslaved and used as shock troops by the more cunning beast tribes.

Also new screens on Locations section.

Ul'dah






Gridania






Limsa Lominsa

[solracht]

son of a bitch, my ff feels

being a fanboy is the worst

[Kurokikaze]

Limsa Lominsa area looks so bawce. dat beach.

[Oreth]

My God.... awesome looking places! Looks like there is so much more going across the landscape adds so much to the game.

[Waraji]

Man that mining site in Thanalan looks much bawcer.