Comments from the Devs

[Jamison]

With a second job per class, they could also go a route of considering it an advanced job. Perhaps needing some significant prereqs to unlock, or a significantly more involved and/or difficult path to gaining the unique skills of that job.

[Takiwaki]

With a second job per class, they could also go a route of considering it an advanced job. Perhaps needing some significant prereqs to unlock, or a significantly more involved and/or difficult path to gaining the unique skills of that job.

What would be the reason behind making a job harder to get than any other....=/

[Jamison]

What would be the reason behind making a job harder to get than any other....=/

I'm not saying I love it -- but folks are saying they don't want, for a class they already have at 50, getting a new job to be too easy. /shurg

[Gokulo]

I'm not saying I love it -- but folks are saying they don't want, for a class they already have at 50, getting a new job to be too easy. /shurg

The things folks want are rather stupid most of the time.

[Destinye]

What would be the reason behind making a job harder to get than any other....=/

As much as we all want ARR to be such an easy MMORPG, making something even slightly a challenge to unlock is always a good thing, never a bad thing - outside of crybabies, of course.

[Waraji]

Last page and half:



How much do you people Hate yourselves? I mean, holy shit.

[Jehr]

I'm not a huge fan of the job instantly being your class level when it unlocks like it was in 1.0.. That kind of stuff is what causes high levels to not know how to play their role/job.. I'd rather grind than automatically be high level, and I HATED grinding robber crabs..

[miokomioko]

I'm not a huge fan of the job instantly being your class level when it unlocks like it was in 1.0.. That kind of stuff is what causes high levels to not know how to play their role/job.. I'd rather grind than automatically be high level, and I HATED grinding robber crabs..

Despite being Lv.50 CLASS, and automatically being Lv.50 JOB, you will get laughed at if you haven't done all of your job quests and are missing skills because of it. Winning some of those final job quest fights (at least in 1.0) was much more proof of competence than simply grinding anything to 50 on god-knows-what garbage mobs or quests.

[Spider-Dan]

^for sure, I do not miss Thunder I,II,III,...VI. All abilities in 1.23+ were useful which is what I really liked

I still don't understand why people see that change as a good thing.

It would be one thing if Cure kept the same MP cost but increased in power. But if you want a cure that increases in potency and MP cost as you level up... that's Cure2!

It's like people think XI would have been better if Blizzard2 just replaced Blizzard, if Blizzard3 replaced Blizzard2, etc. Like the option to cast the lower-tier spell is some sort of drawback.

[Spider-Dan]

As much as we all want ARR to be such an easy MMORPG, making something even slightly a challenge to unlock is always a good thing, never a bad thing - outside of crybabies, of course.

Here is the "challenge" to unlocking 50PLD:

Leveling GLA to 50.

It's not like a level 50 class is really even worth anything by itself anymore.

[Kachiko]

I still don't understand why people see that change as a good thing.

It would be one thing if Cure kept the same MP cost but increased in power. But if you want a cure that increases in potency and MP cost as you level up... that's Cure2!

It's like people think XI would have been better if Blizzard2 just replaced Blizzard, if Blizzard3 replaced Blizzard2, etc. Like the option to cast the lower-tier spell is some sort of drawback.

It's a matter of scaling. The only reason you needed to cast lower level spells, in FFXI, is because your normal attacks did next to nothing to things that would con as 'too weak to matter', or whatever it was specifically called. Obviously, you could one shot really low level stuff, but not things that were however many levels low enough to just cross the 'too weak' threshold. Melee didn't have the problem, with their auto-attacks, but without the mage equivalent, you had to cast a spell that was MP/Damage ratio that made sense. Most modern games, like TERA or (gasp!) WoW, don't have this type of problem. As you level, your spells gain ranks, and more power, and everything is balanced around a %MP used and your auto attacks were enough to blast off anything not relative to your actual level. FFXI was rooted in the past FF games where, back then, this type of scaling just didn't exist on cartridge based games, and they wanted FFXI to reflect those mechanics.

Now, if ARR did scale basic attacks properly to a mob's relative strength to yours, then you remove the necessity of having yo have lower ranks to meet that MP/Damage ratio. Not being in the Beta so far, I have zero insight as to whether this is the case, but by P3, we should know whether they brought proper scaling into the game, as we'll be able to see both the Low, and End game scaling.

[miokomioko]

As long as the MP cost doesn't increase be a larger margin than your MP pool, it's fine.

As long as this is true, the only benefit of having all these tiers of the same shit is just to use when others are on cool-down. If the cooldown isn't a problem, then there's zero use for 4 tiers of the same spell unless you just want to do less damage.

[Gokulo]

Someone posted on the beta forums that S-E will be with ARR on the Roleplay Con in Cologne. They will have a presentation today and tomorrow. I doubt they will release any new significant info but might be worth looking out for.

Times:

01.06.2013 - Mainstage 12:00 - 15:00 ( GMT +2 )
02.06.2013 - Mainstage 12:30 - 14:30 ( GMT +2 )

(this means first presentation in 1 hour)

Planned SE Content:

- Beta Invites for CBT 3 ( of course )
- Goodies ( of course )
- Playable Demo of Final Fantasy XIII-2 (I think it was supposed to be LR)
- Playable PS3 Demo of Final Fantasy XIV ARR
- Photo Contest ( Your Photo will be ported into the XIV World )
- Deus Ex - HR - Playable Demo for Wii U

[Spider-Dan]

It's a matter of scaling. The only reason you needed to cast lower level spells, in FFXI, is because your normal attacks did next to nothing to things that would con as 'too weak to matter', or whatever it was specifically called. Obviously, you could one shot really low level stuff, but not things that were however many levels low enough to just cross the 'too weak' threshold. Melee didn't have the problem, with their auto-attacks, but without the mage equivalent, you had to cast a spell that was MP/Damage ratio that made sense.

1) You could certainly melee TW mobs as a mage in XI. RDM, WHM and BRD were pretty capable at meleeing.
2) XI mages' auto-attack looks incredibly effective compared to XIV mages' auto-attack.
3) MP/damage ratio, MP/cure ratio, and enmity gain were all reasons not to cast your highest-tier spell at every opportunity.

In XI, the "scaling" was selected manually by the player, instead of automatically by the game. You want a low damage, low cost spell, you pick that one. I don't see how removing that choice and only giving you the high-damage, high-cost version is an improvement... and if it were, XI could have been improved by simply removing Cure1 when you learned Cure2, etc.

This just sounds like another variant on the "my spell lists are too long!" complaint.

[Gokulo]

This just sounds like another variant on the "my spell lists are too long!" complaint.

Because my spell list is too long!

[Spider-Dan]

As long as the MP cost doesn't increase be a larger margin than your MP pool, it's fine.

So it's a bad idea to have the option to use a spell that uses a smaller percentage of your MP?

As long as this is true, the only benefit of having all these tiers of the same shit is just to use when others are on cool-down. If the cooldown isn't a problem, then there's zero use for 4 tiers of the same spell unless you just want to do less damage.

Well, notwithstanding the fact that you just listed another reason to use a lower tier spell (less damage/curing/enmity), and that you didn't mention a third reason (less MP cost), the first issue you mentioned already reared its head in XIV.

Having only one spell that simply increases in power/cost doesn't help when it comes to cooldowns, which is exactly the reason that Cura (read: Cure2) exists. It does the same thing as Cure, only with more potency/cost. So what was the benefit of "removing" Cure2 when it needed to be readded (but with a different name!) in the same update?

[Kurokikaze]

^ you should just stop advocating for these stupid FFXI mechanics in FFXIV... It's clearly not going to happen so just save us all the headache and stop posting...

[mightyg]

Or it could, you know, be scaled so there is negligible benefit from using a lower tier spell. Having multiple tiers of the same spell probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense if they continue developing the combo system. Also barance.

[Kachiko]

1) You could certainly melee TW mobs as a mage in XI. RDM, WHM and BRD were pretty capable at meleeing.
2) XI mages' auto-attack looks incredibly effective compared to XIV mages' auto-attack.
3) MP/damage ratio, MP/cure ratio, and enmity gain were all reasons not to cast your highest-tier spell at every opportunity.

In XI, the "scaling" was selected manually by the player, instead of automatically by the game. You want a low damage, low cost spell, you pick that one. I don't see how removing that choice and only giving you the high-damage, high-cost version is an improvement... and if it were, XI could have been improved by simply removing Cure1 when you learned Cure2, etc.

This just sounds like another variant on the "my spell lists are too long!" complaint.

Arguing for FFXI mechanics, within the FFXI world, isn't convincing anyone that it was a superior system; if it were, more games would be emulating it, as is the way the world acknowledges a good idea. To break one of your points, there's no reason T4 shouldn't have destroyed anything that cons 'too weak'; if you have to cast a lower tier to finish it off, the game mechanics aren't working properly as you just wasted more MP to kill something that should have died on the first spell, and the same can be said of most any other ability, be it melee or mage. To fix all of these things, FFXI would need a complete overhaul of every single combat mechanic, which is exactly what FF14 ARR is trying to do. Somehow, almost every other MMO out there has implemented a much faster paced combat system that gives flexibility to all classes, without having redundancy in spell tiers. It seems, to me, the question is, will FF14 ARR have a system that reflects this, or will FF traditions and mechanics prevent this from happening.

[solracht]

The thief thread on the beta forums made me chuckle

Project Manager M has made it quite clear that she'll be choosing monk once the game launches. Me? I'll be waiting for wrstwbuch&yjn%ceki#@urfoldm&ierfeiariuferru... Ahem.

Fernehalwes