Comments from the Devs

[donnie]

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/news/a.../class_add_001

Details on the crafting and gathering classes

[Rhinox]

The thief thread on the beta forums made me chuckle

thats pretty funny. Think you can also make Scholar out if you really wanted too as well

[Takiwaki]

The thread complaining about the animations being too fast in the skill video is nice too lol

[Spider-Dan]

Arguing for FFXI mechanics, within the FFXI world, isn't convincing anyone that it was a superior system; if it were, more games would be emulating it, as is the way the world acknowledges a good idea.

You claimed that the reason why spells were tiered in XI was because of the ineffectiveness of mage auto-attack, yet this problem is even worse in XIV and there are still no tiers (except for Cure, which has nothing to do with auto-attack).

To break one of your points, there's no reason T4 shouldn't have destroyed anything that cons 'too weak'; if you have to cast a lower tier to finish it off, the game mechanics aren't working properly as you just wasted more MP to kill something that should have died on the first spell, and the same can be said of most any other ability, be it melee or mage.

So the reason why having access to lower cost/potency spells is bad is because all weak enemies should die in one attack?

What if you want to cast a spell (vs. something that matters) while managing your MP? What if you want to manage your enmity? These are all real concerns.

Somehow, almost every other MMO out there has implemented a much faster paced combat system that gives flexibility to all classes, without having redundancy in spell tiers.

I still don't get the complaint about "redundancy" in spell tiers. You want to cast your max potency, max MP cost spell every time? Sort your spell list so your max tier spells are at the top. Now you have fully simulated XIV's system of increasing damage and potency, and as long as you don't scroll down too far, you will never be forced to deal with the troublesome problem of having-too-many-spells-to-choose-from.

[Stanislaw]

You claimed that the reason why spells were tiered in XI was because of the ineffectiveness of mage auto-attack, yet this problem is even worse in XIV and there are still no tiers (except for Cure, which has nothing to do with auto-attack).

Is Stone/Stonera not a tier? And from the abilities video, the WHM casted something that pretty much looked like Aerora. And let's not forget the BLMs different Fire + Blizzard spells.

Sorry for the derail, but just wanted to point that out. Carry on, gentlemen.

[Evane]

What if you want to cast a spell (vs. something that matters) while managing your MP? What if you want to manage your enmity? These are all real concerns.

You'd have to suck-less

[Lokus]

You claimed that the reason why spells were tiered in XI was because of the ineffectiveness of mage auto-attack, yet this problem is even worse in XIV and there are still no tiers (except for Cure, which has nothing to do with auto-attack).


So the reason why having access to lower cost/potency spells is bad is because all weak enemies should die in one attack?

What if you want to cast a spell (vs. something that matters) while managing your MP? What if you want to manage your enmity? These are all real concerns.


I still don't get the complaint about "redundancy" in spell tiers. You want to cast your max potency, max MP cost spell every time? Sort your spell list so your max tier spells are at the top. Now you have fully simulated XIV's system of increasing damage and potency, and as long as you don't scroll down too far, you will never be forced to deal with the troublesome problem of having-too-many-spells-to-choose-from.

XIV is balanced around the lack/minimal amount of tiered spells. It should try and get away from tiers honestly and add more uniqueness to each and every spell instead of just "This spell has more boom!"

[Cutriss]

^ you should just stop advocating for these stupid FFXI mechanics in FFXIV... It's clearly not going to happen so just save us all the headache and stop posting...

To be fair, they're FF mechanics, not FFXI.

[Enygma55]

As it currently stands, there are tiered spells that also scale. CONJ has Cure and Cura (necessary for healing/enmity purposes) but they also have Stone and Stone II.

As you get higher in level, spells start to cost more mp and deal a bit more dmg. Spells also have added debuff effects (Stone II has heavy status, Aero has DOT) so they just arnt generic dmg. I assume Aeroga will still possess the Dispel debuff.

Game play after lv 25 will have you managing your MP or you will run out in the more drawn out battles.

Cant comment on BLM yet as I've no clue how they've changed their spell mechanics.

[Grey Jorildyn]

The reason something like Cure and Cura even existed was to class-lock higher tier abilities from being used on jobs that will "sub" that class. They didn't want PLD to have Cura, just Cure, same for BRD, so they preserved class identity somewhat by creating another "tier" of cure spell in v1.0. Wanting spell tiers back is a dumb idea imo.

[Spider-Dan]

Is Stone/Stonera not a tier?

Stonera is AOE outside of combos.

Cura is the clearest example of something that's clearly a tier2 spell (the same but more), though if you exclude combos, Fire/Fira/Firaga would also fit the bill. Nevertheless, people seem to praise the (general) removal of spell tiers as if it improved the game instead of simply removing options.

[Spider-Dan]

The reason something like Cure and Cura even existed was to class-lock higher tier abilities from being used on jobs that will "sub" that class. They didn't want PLD to have Cura, just Cure, same for BRD, so they preserved class identity somewhat by creating another "tier" of cure spell in v1.0.

Why can't you just allow Cure1 and Cure2 to be cross-classable but not Cure3 and Cure4? SE has plenty of experience restricting which abilities can be cross-classed.

[Waraji]

Cura sounds less tiered. Like Fire, Fira, Firaga, regardless of AoE properties.

[Rocl]

it just loops around

[Charismatic]

it just loops around

I'd like to think of it as tumbling... tumbling down.

[xopher]

I'd like to think of it as tumbling... tumbling down.

komm susser tod

[Evane]

it just loops around

A gaping pit waiting to swallow us all. No. It is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but they refuse. They cling to common sense, or the rules of debates, or hope that it would eventually stop. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

[Elcura]

Why can't you just allow Cure1 and Cure2 to be cross-classable but not Cure3 and Cure4? SE has plenty of experience restricting which abilities can be cross-classed.

More spells more problems.

Keep it simple, stupid.

[Evane]

He got 99 problems but a spell ain't one.

[Carraway]

A gaping pit waiting to swallow us all. No. It is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some are given a chance to climb, but they refuse. They cling to common sense, or the rules of debates, or hope that it would eventually stop. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Schwarze Milch der Frühe wir trinken dich nachts
wir trinken dich mittags der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland
wir trinken dich abends und morgens wir trinken und trinken
der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland sein Auge ist blau