Comments from the Devs

[Alkar]

Why?

Because you shouldn't be able to stay in the stance and still heal properly imo. The stance has one purpose only: better damage. If you want to heal simply switch it off.

[Elcura]

Got pug to 23, and my main issues were indeed the time it takes to get stacked buffs up to maintain good dmg. The dmg to me did seem a bit lackluster, especially if having to move to avoid aoes etc making my dmg boosts reset. I think pug does need a slight buff in the dmg department as well as survivability on non trash mobs. low HP and paper armor.

What kind of dmg numbers per skill where you guys getting? Also Crit dmg needs to be made a bit more visible.

I do think later on in harder fights pug will shine the boosts it gets from traits seem very good, but at the start I do think slight changes will be nice.

On average I was getting around 30-35 Bootshines (50-55 forced crit going from Snap Punch), 20-25 Twin Snakes (used only for power boost), 30-35 from behind (with buff), 35-40 on True Strike (with Twin Snakes) and around 50-60 crit, Snap Punch was around 30-35 with 40 crits. Crits are visible due to larger numbers and ! afterwards, but yeah it does need to be clearer. Most of the time I kept Twin Snakes active and rotated with True Strike when it was up from behind (lol) so that was a boost too when it occasionally. Haymaker was good damage but unreliable for DPS, Touch of Death deals DOT so if you start with it you don't lose out on anything by the time you reach GLII.

As far as long-term goes, the ability at 50 seems like a great way to quickly apply GLIII because you can just spam Coeurl form WS to apply it, Fists of Fire (as well as GLA cross class abilities) increase offense while Earth increases DEF, Wind helps you run the fuck away or heal. Internal Release increases crit rate for a time so with the speed MNK has overall it'll be dangerous (and AA benefits which seemed to crit more often than WS lol). Dragon Kick also seems to lower resistance to blunt damage so that's even more of a damage boost. Utility wise they have healing increase, 2 stuns, 2 dots, silence and dispel the last two of which are on WS so it seems like a good class to have around.

[Spider-Dan]

True, way I see it is though...

WHM = Max heals
CNJ = gimpy heals
↨↨↨↨↨↨↨↨↨↨↨↨↨↨↨
THM = gimpy nukes
BLM = max nukes

You can mix a little from 1 side to the other, but they do not cross over you can never take the roll of the other side.

In that paradigm, though, CNJ and THM are completely useless and irrelevant.

That's my point; maybe there's a scenario (usually: lowman content) where you need slightly more support than BLM can provide or slightly more nuking than WHM can provide, and can live with the dropoff in their primary functions. These should be the situations where THM and CNJ can actually serve a purpose.

Unfortunately for CNJ, WHM now has access to THM crossclass abilities, taking away the one real benefit CNJ had over WHM... so it seems like CNJ will be totally pointless in ARR. However, MND THM could potentially do well in a role where they provide much better cures than BLM (not hard) and significantly better nuking than WHM or CNJ.

[Lucavi]

Got pug to 23, and my main issues were indeed the time it takes to get stacked buffs up to maintain good dmg. The dmg to me did seem a bit lackluster, especially if having to move to avoid aoes etc making my dmg boosts reset. I think pug does need a slight buff in the dmg department as well as survivability on non trash mobs. low HP and paper armor.

What kind of dmg numbers per skill where you guys getting? Also Crit dmg needs to be made a bit more visible.

I do think later on in harder fights pug will shine the boosts it gets from traits seem very good, but at the start I do think slight changes will be nice.

I'm always wary about buffing a class designed to do a lot of damage through lots of low hits. Its basically the same thing with dual-wield War back in the day. Do you want a warrior hitting one axe for 80 damage to a Drgs 110 when the war gets two swings and swings three times as fast due to delay? Is that what you call balance?

Just sit on your hands and wait awhile. Yoshi P talks about how he plays this game non-stop. I'm sure he's keeping an eye on damage across the board.

Just be patient.

[Takiwaki]

I'm always wary about buffing a class designed to do a lot of damage through lots of low hits. Its basically the same thing with dual-wield War back in the day. Do you want a warrior hitting one axe for 80 damage to a Drgs 110 when the war gets two swings and swings three times as fast due to delay? Is that what you call balance?

Just sit on your hands and wait awhile. Yoshi P talks about how he plays this game non-stop. I'm sure he's keeping an eye on damage across the board.

Just be patient.

Oh no I do agree, I can definitely see what the class becomes later on, its just a bit more challenging at the start compared to other melee classes as the way its set up, it wont really shine till later on.

Does greased lightning affect skill recast time? did not notice, or is the attack speed increase just auto attack?

[Lucavi]

Oh no I do agree, I can definitely see what the class becomes later on, its just a bit more challenging at the start compared to other melee classes as the way its set up, it wont really shine till later on.

I don't view individual classes as "challenging" unless they can't complete content. Pug can complete content easily. If you're trying to talk about a "no one will invite pug to do anything because they think that its 3% less DPS than MRD", then that's your own prerogative. I don't see that being the issue with anyone who knows how to play the class.

[BerenTebogo]

Yeah I don't know much about the traits later, I'm sure it'll come through, just mid levels it does fall behind other DD when everyone is doing their jobs properly.

Might keep up with rando DD but without GLII / ability to consistently stack buffs it isnt keeping up with a really good lnc or war yet.

Hope higher levels it evens out though.

Still will probably do GLA as first DoW though.

[Takiwaki]

I don't view individual classes as "challenging" unless they can't complete content. Pug can complete content easily. If you're trying to talk about a "no one will invite pug to do anything because they think that its 3% less DPS than MRD", then that's your own prerogative. I don't see that being the issue with anyone who knows how to play the class.

Thanks for clearing it up.

[Niiro]

In that paradigm, though, CNJ and THM are completely useless and irrelevant.

You seem to forget that in 1.0 all classes were useless and irrelevant.

THM was actually the exception for AoE damage reducing Sanguine, but that was it.

[Sigmakan]

Anyone have a list of all class/job actions/ws/traits? Trying to get xivdb to work, but something seems wonky.

[Elcura]

I honestly think it will pull back up at later levels since GL stacks, so at most it'll give (if I'm assuming correctly based on tooltips) 15% speed increase and 21% damage increase, along with what I said early about later PGL abilities and traits (as well as cross class) I certainly don't imagine PGL will fall behind. It'll also be less restricted in terms of combo flow compared to LNC and MRD, while providing the party more utility than either.

Played right I don't think MNK will slack at all, while also providing enough reasons to invite one despite lower damage. I couldn't see anything else that could dispel, so that might likely be a turning point.

[Charismatic]

Wait since when were CNJ nukes MND based in 1.0?

Aside from Holy.

I didn't say jack shit about 1.0. I am talking about ARR.

Because you shouldn't be able to stay in the stance and still heal properly imo. The stance has one purpose only: better damage. If you want to heal simply switch it off.

Then they should make healing harder to do so that you need that 20%.
If a 1/5 cut to your healing isn't enough, there's other problems don't you think?

[Charismatic]

delete me

[Raldo]

Just to clear this up, since Charismatic didn't quite paint the full picture.

Wait since when were CNJ nukes MND based in 1.0?

Aside from Holy.

In previous beta versions, CNJ nuke damage was based off of their MND stat.

[Reve]

With combo and positions PGL/MNK seems like it will be one of those jobs where a person's skill will play a huge part. I think when it hits a "groove" on the right type of mobs it will definitely be a powerhouse.

And yeah classes weren't really useful once you obtained your job. Granted there were isolated situations where you would go with a class, but like others have said it's usually just Sanguine THM. I'm personally fine with this. Leave classes as early game and force people into jobs as you gain more levels. It might turn into that with more jobs branching off of one class, as I'm assuming SMN and SCH will play very differently.

[Alkar]

I didn't say jack shit about 1.0. I am talking about ARR.



Then they should make healing harder to do so that you need that 20%.
If a 1/5 cut to your healing isn't enough, there's other problems don't you think?

I honestly don't see the issue here. It's very easy to switch the stance on and off and I did that all the time previous Alpha/Beta phases even if it wasn't as necessary. It's no different than THM having to deal with the Umbral/Astral gimmick. You only pop the stance in solo or when you actually don't need to cure.

[Charismatic]

I honestly don't see the issue here. It's very easy to switch the stance on and off and I did that all the time previous Alpha/Beta phases even if it wasn't as necessary. It's no different than THM having to deal with the Umbral/Astral gimmick. You only pop the stance in solo or when you actually don't need to cure.

Okay, so you're not telling me anything that anyone doesn't already know and you're also not answering why this nerf is a good thing.
I don't see anything that enhances the class's gameplay at all.

[Alkar]

Okay, so you're not telling me anything that anyone doesn't already know and you're also not answering why this nerf is a good thing.
I don't see anything that enhances the class's gameplay at all.

Well you actually have to make a choice now, it gives the ability a more strategic use than simply keeping it on forever because the drawback isn't as severe. Thaumaturge has to pick between stronger nukes or MP regen and they have to switch back and forth often, Conjurer has to pick between nukes or heals.
It's the whole point of stances really. How is this a bad thing? Mage classes need more depth and I think Conjurer still isn't quite there yet.

[Raldo]

Doesn't even seem like a nerf to me. Without the INT/MND swap, your nukes would do less.

[Alkar]

Doesn't even seem like a nerf to me. Without the INT/MND swap, your nukes would do less.

With the swap your MND is way lower than before, making your cures even worse. It is a nerf.