Comments from the Devs

[Mina]

my day is now ruined remember this stuff and how old I am

You mentioning this reminded me I was fourteen years old back then.

Several of us peer pressured our LS members into doing things and pressured them to encourage their parties to do these things. Some of my LS members bought mithkabobs from me cheaply or would bring me the cockatrice meat in exchange for discounted mithkabobs.

I also had a bazaar I'd keep full of food and would hint in a not so subtle way to parties that I had food they could buy cheaper than the AH from. (the better they do, the easier my parties would be, I thought)

Edit: I think honestly back then since there wasn't a great wiki to consult all your answers to most of it was all ask a question in the LS chat and hope that someone knew the answer because otherwise you had to log out and google your answer. Or at least those of us without a second computer had to do that.

[Charismatic]

Edit: I think honestly back then since there wasn't a great wiki to consult all your answers to most of it was all ask a question in the LS chat and hope that someone knew the answer because otherwise you had to log out and google your answer. Or at least those of us without a second computer had to do that.

You just reminded me that temp logging was a thing at one time. I forgot all about that.
Why'd they remove it, again?

[Sigmakan]

Wow, nice move by Dan.

Making a fool of himself about the DRG BRD argument so he deflects to a FFXI debate. Well played sir.

[Grey Jorildyn]

The last page has reminded me of the nightmares I endured for weeks about dark knights and monks eating mithkabobs and missing 40% of the time in Processionaire parties. I really hope I can sleep tonight...

[Tokitoki]

The last page has reminded me of the nightmares I endured for weeks about dark knights and monks eating mithkabobs and missing 40% of the time in Processionaire parties. I really hope I can sleep tonight...

And to think; that entire problem could have been alleviated if we were just smarter and fought VT mobs faster for a bit less exp...

By the time I got to that level I tried to make sure I had as much acc as I could afford for THF. That meant no Scorpion Harness (15million at one point... what?!) or P. Charm. I did annoy the shit out of people doing AF in Castle Oz as I jacked their coffers for Astral rings though. That was fun while it lasted. Equipped my RNG and THF with that money, but they removed it before I got back on that bandwagon to get the higher end gear.

[Niiro]

Given that there were only a handful of exp camps at any given level the prospect of getting an entire party of nearly the same level in order to target a specific camp that wasn't taken and the mobs were VT to everyone (until someone leveled up and fucked it all) was pretty dismal.

[Waraji]

Cut the shit with XI, this thread quit being about XIV about 2 pages ago.

[Hyan]

But FFXI is so close mechanically to ARR that it's basically on-topic.

/S-D

[Mina]

Wow, nice move by Dan.

Making a fool of himself about the DRG BRD argument so he deflects to a FFXI debate. Well played sir.

I was getting tired of that bard argument that has been going on for what feels like all week. Both argument and debate are/were quite foolish and I managed to step into both of them so I'm a fool.

But FFXI is so close mechanically to ARR that it's basically on-topic.

/S-D

lol

[Sigmakan]

I was getting tired of that bard argument that has been going on for what feels like all week. Both argument and debate are/were quite foolish and I managed to step into both of them so I'm a fool.



lol

Agreed, the argument was quite silly. We'll have to find something new to 'discuss'

[SilverBreeze]

I agree, let's try and keep this on the topic of XIV guys.

[Spider-Dan]

If we're done pretending that MNK and DRG have any sort of real disadvantage in having to avoid AoE (because everyone has to move in meaningful content, and has since 1.0), then we can talk about player involvement in combos vs. procs.

Most of MNK's combos are not even executable if you have missed your previous WS (because you are not in the correct stance), meaning that your attention requirement is pretty much "did something happen the last time you pushed a button? then continue as normal." It should be patently obvious that if the conditions were reversed and each MNK WS had (say) a 50% chance of enabling the next WS in the combo, MNK would demand significantly more of your attention (even if all WS could be performed from the same side).

DRG's combos are, in a very rudimentary sense, a "proc"; the proc is simply "did the previous WS land?" You instantly know whether you need to continue the combo before you've even finished animating the first WS. In contrast, BRD's Bloodletter procs can be randomly triggered any time one of their DoTs is up.

tl;dr For both MNK and DRG, you can simply run through a set order and the only thing you have to be concerned about is the next WS you were going to do anyway. BRD has to actively watch for procs and change their WS order based on what procs.

[Mina]

I think Sleipnir looks magestic.

[Sigmakan]

tl;dr For both MNK and DRG, you can simply run through a set order and the only thing you have to be concerned about is the next WS you were going to do anyway. BRD has to actively watch for procs and change their WS order based on what procs.

BRD has to actively watch for procs. MNK/DRG has to actively watch for changing boss position and AoEs.

I honestly don't know why im still arguing this. I dont even know what we are arguing any more.

tl;dr
Miner is the hardest job

[Elcura]

Considering how much freedom you have with BRD procs (can use another WS, lasts for like 10 seconds etc) you don't actually have to be that attentive. In fact, as long as you notice a proc has occurred on BRD, you're free to follow up whenever and however you please as long as the proc stays active. Considering you should be glancing over at your bar, I would say it would be impossible to miss a proc on BRD unless you're a gamepad user with a really bad crossbar. Not to mention there aren't that many useful procs, since most WS with procs take like 140+ TP so you can't spam those and wait for a proc without running out of TP first.

Compared to MNK and DRG who do not get that freedom (DRG more so than MNK). MNK has to keep a flow going, changing what WS they use in order to maximize damage or adapt to what the boss needs done, DRG has something similar to do but has less freedom to do it than MNK.

BRD is more, use whatever the fuck you want and if it procs you get 10 seconds to follow up and don't worry about using another WS because you can still combo as long as you aren't blind or retarded. Yeah, BRD is easier.

[Spider-Dan]

BRD has to actively watch for procs. MNK/DRG has to actively watch for changing boss position and AoEs.

All jobs have to watch for AoEs. If the boss (and the tank, and the melees) change position, then BRD will almost necessarily have to change position too.

In a nutshell, making decisions is more complicated than just executing muscle memory. MNK and DRG are much more reliant on execute these WS in this exact order than BRD is.

[Spider-Dan]

Considering how much freedom you have with BRD procs (can use another WS, lasts for like 10 seconds etc) you don't actually have to be that attentive.

DoT WS proc resets Bloodletter recast, which means as soon as your DoT tick randomly resets it, BL should almost certainly be the very next attack you execute.

Now, can you just let BL sit until the next time you would have used it anyway? Sure. But if you don't care about maximizing your damage, all DDs are equally easy.

[Elcura]

Bloodletter is on a short cooldown anyway and since it's a useful, commonly used skill it should be somewhere it is used often and can be seen. It also doesn't use GCD so you're free to use Bloodletter whenever it is up. It's not exactly any harder to watch for than the other procs. Hell, you could press the bloodletter hotkey between any attack and chances are it'll fire without you even thinking about it. It's the only worthy consideration for difficulty in DPS, unlike other BRD procs.

You see, bloodletter is the hardest proc to watch for, and yet it's still really easy due to Bloodletter being a damage ability and not WS. How much easier are the other procs to watch for? Used Heavy Shot? Keep an eye for Straight. Used Wide Volley? Keep an eye out for Rain, used Rain? Keep an eye out for Quick Nock.

[Raldo]

You crazy Bard people, riddle me this:

1) XIVDB lists Bloodletter as having the exact same description as Heavy Shot. Is there something missing in the description that makes it such a big deal?

2) The River of Blood trait is confusing. SD seems to allude that the DoT ticks themselves will reset Bloodletter, but when I read it, I interpret it as only checking to reset Bloodletter when the DoT lands, not every time it procs. Can someone who played around on their legacy ARC/BRD confirm which way it works?

[Elcura]

Bloodletter doesn't cost any TP and isn't on GCD, so compared to heavy shot it's (commitment) free damage. IIRC the DoT ticks have to crit for Bloodletter to reset, not the actual WS itself being a crit. But I wasn't paying that much attention to DoT crits.