Comments from the Devs

[Tokitoki]

Tokitoki: From what I've heard, Flash seems to be utterly OP and basically makes GLD easymode tank.

I know I'm not Carraway but that's what I've been informed from my GLD friends. D: As a MRD I don't know how to feel about it, lol.

Based on the discussion I had with Carraway on the forums; Flash is a flat rate of AoE enmity (say 400 damage worth at 30). This is indeed a significant number, in fact, if this is stacked on each cast you have a large buffer for hate. On the other hand, the "enmity bonus" associated with Savage Blade and Rage of Halone (and presumably MRD's Skull Sunder and Overpower) is enmity of double the damage dealt. This means that in your single combination (of Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Rage of Halone > Repeat) you could be gaining more enmity than simply spamming the Flash combination and recovering MP (Flash > Fast Blade > Riot Blade > repeat).

This of course depends on how up to date your weapon and armor is as well as your STR and determination stats. Of course it is easier to spam Flash, but it doesn't really help you in the long run. I guess in this case it is a matter of min/maxing. You get your enmity (possibly more than Flash spam) as well as contribute to the damage output of the group much more readily.

EDIT:

Personally I find it more useful to focus down single mobs in a group instead of just Flash spamming and letting everyone else AoE things to death. GLD hate combo isn't too shabby for damage and the sooner you kill 1 mob out of the group the less damage your tank will be taking so it helps with healer MP as well.

Also this.

I know you aren't arguing Mina; just giving a recap of what we had discussed some months ago regarding GLA. I'm not sure if the enmity formulas have changed to make Flash spam more viable or if it is just that people are not using their SB/RoH combo effectively; i.e. rotating between mobs or leading the party to the next mob with your own combos.

[Spider-Dan]

Tokitoki: From what I've heard, Flash seems to be utterly OP and basically makes GLD easymode tank.

I know I'm not Carraway but that's what I've been informed from my GLD friends. D: As a MRD I don't know how to feel about it, lol.

I don't think the +blind trait from GLA adds any enmity, so (given that Flash is subbable) this seems like a case of a rising tide lifts all boats.

[Tokitoki]

Link to one thread I had in mind. There was also a second one where I asked Carraway a series of questions but I did not save that one to Subscribed Threads.

Help me keep my threat

One post:

GLA's enmity generation centers around the usage of your chief enmity WS line, Fast Blade -> Savage Blade -> Rage of Halone (acquired at level 30), along with supplemental enmity tools like Flash and Provoke. If you want to hold hate against similarly geared LNCs, you need to focus on doing as much damage with Savage Blade and Rage of Halone as possible. Those two WSs' "increased enmity" description actually translates to a multiplier that affects the damage you do with the WS.

A friend did some brief enmity testing, and I corroborated, that Provoke essentially grants you 100% enmity+1, so it's useful only as a snap-aggro tool. For example, if you're fighting a trash pack and you've fallen behind on a particular mob by a lot, you can Fast Blade something else, Provoke the target you want to snap back, then Savage Blade and Rage of Halone it to establish a lead.

Shield Lob is useful only at range. It also has an enmity multiplier, but its base damage is very low and it's an inefficient use of TP. Flash provides a flat amount of enmity to all targets in range; the amount of enmity itself scales as you gain levels. Not sure about the exact numbers, but at level 35, one Flash is roughly equivalent to one Savage Blade (with the caveat that it doesn't lead to Rage of Halone, which has a larger multiplier than Savage Blade). If you're in a party with DPS pushing as hard as they can, you need to carefully consider how much enmity you're generating per GCD. Anything that doesn't have an enmity multiplier will be a waste of time. Curing also has a negative enmity multiplier, something like 0.5x, so refrain from self-healing during combat whenever possible.

When we burn the last boss in Haukke, I stagger out my non-GCD abilities like Blood for Blood, Raging Strike, and Fight or Flight so that I'm not slipping too much on my WS usage. Typically I will body-aggro, Flash, Fast Blade, Fight or Flight, Savage Blade, Blood for Blood and Raging Strike, Rage of Halone, and then just repeat the Rage of Halone line until adds spawn. I'll Flash them then go back to what I was doing. I also Shield Bash the boss's Dark Mist move, though it's annoying when that interrupts my Halone combo.

[Obsidian]

You can sub flash so shouldn't feel too bad. The only limiting factor would be MRD/WAR MP but we also have Overpower which deals damage in the process of being an AoE hate tool so I don't think its too much of an issue. Personally I find it more useful to focus down single mobs in a group instead of just Flash spamming and letting everyone else AoE things to death. GLD hate combo isn't too shabby for damage and the sooner you kill 1 mob out of the group the less damage your tank will be taking so it helps with healer MP as well.

Or continue use Flash and kill the links you almost certainly got one by one. I had way more trouble healing the WAR we used in Brayflox because Overpower wasn't generating enough enmity. When I switched to PLD I had zero issues holding everything with just Flash and Provoke.

[Mina]

Tokitoki: I took 0 offense I like staying in the loop on things like this. Completely relevant to all my interests. Obsidian's situation appears to be what I've been told but I'd also like to hear some actual tested data where we compare the difference. Admittedly, spamming flash + provoke sounds obviously easier and a lil silly.

[Voyage1970]

Or continue use Flash and kill the links you almost certainly got one by one. I had way more trouble healing the WAR we used in Brayflox because Overpower wasn't generating enough enmity. When I switched to PLD I had zero issues holding everything with just Flash and Provoke.

Are you sleeping adds? If you are killing things one by one and not AoEing stuff down there really isn't any reason not to sleep the adds you get. Have your WAR mark the mobs 1,2,3 and have your THM or CNJ sleep adds starting from 3. In my static we have a GLD, CNJ, ARC, PGL (me), and our GLD would only Flash at the very beginning of a pull to get initial hate on everything. First mob would go down before the others woke up and our CNJ would just resleep when they woke up.

[Lucavi]

The 1.0 worship on beta forums is disgusting to watch. Yoshi-P should unleash another dalamud on them

Dude, I always threw those in as your people. Its strange to see you against white knight purists...

[Hyan]

Dude, I always threw those in as your people. Its strange to see you against white knight purists...

Yes, I've always known you like to fit people in small little boxes of black and white. I'm sorry to shake your world like this.

[Lucavi]

Oh its hardly shaken, I'm just surprised.

Honestly surprised.

[Hyan]

Now what box do I fit in, little Lucavi?

[Obsidian]

Are you sleeping adds? If you are killing things one by one and not AoEing stuff down there really isn't any reason not to sleep the adds you get. Have your WAR mark the mobs 1,2,3 and have your THM or CNJ sleep adds starting from 3. In my static we have a GLD, CNJ, ARC, PGL (me), and our GLD would only Flash at the very beginning of a pull to get initial hate on everything. First mob would go down before the others woke up and our CNJ would just resleep when they woke up.

No need to sleep them as PLD, and I've only done one dungeon with a THM, and I was MNK for that one so I have no idea what he was doing.

[Charismatic]

Now what box do I fit in, little Lucavi?

☑ Bitch-made.

[Elcura]

☑ Bitch-made.

I lol'd

Also, do all WARs use flash? I was holding hate fine without it. Overpower is the shit.

[Eanae]

I'm only 16 but I've had 0 issue keeping hate as GLD vs DDs higher level than me. It's actually pretty fun having to tab through targets to keep some threat on them while THM aoes shit down.

[Churchill]

Don't have Flash equipped, pretty shit tier ability.


As far as holding hate, I don't think it's possible to not hold hate as a tank. They've made it beyond easy.

[Carraway]

Ah! Just realized; Carraway (if you're still lurking) you used the same name on the Beta forums correct? I remember discussing some of the GLA mechanics with you on the beta forums if so. Have you tested them since Phase 3 started to compare? Everyone seems to be spamming Flash again and I was curious if anything changed that would warrant that.

Junpei did the initial testing, but thus far I've seen no detectable change in multipliers. However, I haven't done any real focused testing this phase yet (loss of the numerical display bothers the fuck out of me and makes me lazy), since I've been mostly working on DRG/MNK/BRD stuff. In phase 1, Savage Blade was x2 and Rage of Halone was x3.5. At-a-glance testing done by one of our guys seems to indicate that Skull Sunder is x3 and Butcher's Block is x5.

Seiken and Dancing Mad corroborated some of our testing and came up with some new information here: http://na.beta.finalfantasyxiv.com/l...24/blog/15696/

[xopher]

so I'm on mrd and I partied with a gld tonight. gld couldn't keep hate off me. gld has shitty abilities for tanking at lower levels. All I was using was 1212121212

[XalienLevi]

so I'm on mrd and I partied with a gld tonight. gld couldn't keep hate off me. gld has shitty abilities for tanking at lower levels. All I was using was 1212121212

Saw the same thing curing Haukke Manor. Couldnt tell if the gld sucked or not. I've been curing Shuichi on his MRD last 2 weekends so didn't care. I think GLD has to switch targets way more often.

[xopher]

Well I'm half retarded and didn't realize skull sunder is an enmity+ ability. On the next run going to do heavy swing and maim mostly and see how that works.

[Lucavi]

Yeah.. skull is kinda bred for tanking. 200 potency for big hits and +enimity. I had to tell a friend to kindly stop using it because she was embarrassing the tank (and had worse defense), but then I felt bad after playing mrd because its like, that's your biggest damage move. What else are you gonna do; auto attack at low levels? Just spam 1?