Comments from the Devs

[Khrno]

Maybe one day we'll get a sequel to Chrono Trigger!

(I liked Chrono Cross, come at me)

Directed by Yoshida, Nomura and Toriyama(?) lol

[Kiarax]

The most interesting part was where he explained how other jobs could come from classes. He gave the hypothetical Dark Knight from Gladiator. He mentioned adjusting the GLD abilities at Lv.30 to suit a DRK. It seems that Yoshi-P is going to be flexible with these Classes -> Jobs. It looks like he really wants Jobs to have an identity and not be clones of Classes, with fancy AF. It also makes me hopeful for other jobs. If he can change how it performs at Lv.30 they don't have to shoehorn situations.

Unless they go back and retool every current job it looks like we'll be stuck with one boring advancement and one interesting one at best. Job system needs to be completely scrapped and reworked imo, it's a relic of how shit 1.0 was.

[Niiro]

The most interesting part was where he explained how other jobs could come from classes. He gave the hypothetical Dark Knight from Gladiator. He mentioned adjusting the GLD abilities at Lv.30 to suit a DRK. It seems that Yoshi-P is going to be flexible with these Classes -> Jobs. It looks like he really wants Jobs to have an identity and not be clones of Classes, with fancy AF. It also makes me hopeful for other jobs. If he can change how it performs at Lv.30 they don't have to shoehorn situations.

It's things like this that make me wonder why they didn't just scrap classes altogether with ARR.

Jobs are already better than classes in pretty much all situations due to their skills (and the general inefficacy of most cross-class stuff) and the straight up across the board stat boost they give, if you're going to go so far as to retrofit class abilities for certain jobs because the originals don't fit with the new job then what was the point of the class to begin with?

The whole class:job system was ultimately a failure anyway, they could have saved a lot of trouble by just getting rid of classes which would have trimmed a lot of the fat and cleared up a lot of confusion as well as allow them to implement new jobs more easily.

[Eanae]

Unless they go back and retool every current job it looks like we'll be stuck with one boring advancement and one interesting one at best. Job system needs to be completely scrapped and reworked imo, it's a relic of how shit 1.0 was.

I like the concept but I agree they kind of backed themselves into a corner with where they can go with jobs from here.

[Lucavi]

The whole class >> jobs thing is kind of a throwback to classic FF anyway, with the Warriors of Light starting off as pretty ho-hum classes before doing Bahamut's quest to unlock some pretty bitchin new sprites. I don't mind it all because I look at it from a nostalgic point of view, moreso when the game directly lists us as Warriors of Light.

The only issue I have is how weapons are tied to classes, not so much because I want to see a Mrd using fists (I don't), but because it either restricts us from seeing traditional classes that currently have no weapon associated with them (I reeeaally don't want to see Dark Knight using a sword and board, because then Dragoon should have lance and shield like IV), or forces SE to continue to create new weapons and tie a few potential jobs together by the ankles.

If they introduced a new type of stabbing weapon like a kukhri for Thf, who else would branch off with that? If they introduced a degen/rapier for Red mage, who else, aside from potentially a Magic Fencer/Mystic Knight/Sorcerer, could that branch into?

[Hyan]

I like the concept but I agree they kind of backed themselves into a corner with where they can go with jobs from here.

It still looks like a blank slate to me tbh, people just think SE is in some kind of a corner lol.

Hell, they don't even need to change the class skills, just add a trait on the job that modifies the skills to fit the new role. No retrofitting necessary, although obviously skills receive more or less changes in an MMO.....

They also don't have to tie a single weapon to a class, they can just add great sword to gladiator and be done with it etc. Then just make it so sword/shield combo is PLD-onry and great sword is DRK-onry... simple.

[Gokulo]

They also don't have to tie a single weapon to a class, they can just add great sword to gladiator and be done with it etc. Then just make it so sword/shield combo is PLD-onry and great sword is DRK-onry... simple.

That's true I guess. And they could even ignore pre-30 because who will care

[solracht]

I hope they actually revamp classes when their second jobs are added. It's going to be weird as fuck if PLD is simply GLA+1 while the second job is an entirely different thing that does not actually use any GLA skills. If that's not a hint that your class system needs revamping then I don't know what is.

I'll wait for ACN, SMN and SCH before passing judgement.

[Evane]

If they introduced a new type of stabbing weapon like a kukhri for Thf, who else would branch off with that?

They can move away from that 1 weapon:1 class thing when branching off. A kukri-wielding THF can branch into a Katana-wielding NIN. It could follow the same Eorzean logic that allows a job to wield a relic but not a class.

Edit: They could also reward you with an "Equip Weapon" job trait when you, let's say, complete the NIN quest.

[Fereydoon]

They also don't have to tie a single weapon to a class, they can just add great sword to gladiator and be done with it etc. Then just make it so sword/shield combo is PLD-onry and great sword is DRK-onry... simple.

Aren't Relics already "Job weapons" and not "Class weapons"?

It'd be easy enough to make Great Sword level 30+ and Dark Knight only or something. Equip it and you change into a Dark Knight.

[Niiro]

1 weapon = 1 class has been the plan since day 1 and they've shown no intention of deviating from it. The way classes/jobs are designed basically requires it (unless you think it makes sense to use "fast blade" with a mace). If they do deviate from it then the whole system is just that much more needlessly ham-handed.

It still looks like a blank slate to me tbh, people just think SE is in some kind of a corner lol.

Hell, they don't even need to change the class skills, just add a trait on the job that modifies the skills to fit the new role. No retrofitting necessary, although obviously skills receive more or less changes in an MMO.....

They also don't have to tie a single weapon to a class, they can just add great sword to gladiator and be done with it etc. Then just make it so sword/shield combo is PLD-onry and great sword is DRK-onry... simple.

And idk how you can call that anything other than retrofitting. "Rampart has increased your defense for the last 40 levels but now it increases attack"...that's retrofitting, and something like that is made even dumber by the fact that the name of the skill wouldn't even make sense anymore.

Either they go the full monty and rename and re-purpose skills entirely or they half-ass it by just changing the function, either way it's a retrofit.

There's no point to having the jobs come from classes when the class is just made more and more irrelevant. If go all the way and change every >30 skill and allow different weapons for different jobs but if they do then they're just perpetuating a more difficult and awkward system atm instead of establishing a new one.

[gaogaostegosaurus]

I'm just hoping Yoshida just doesn't want to deal with forums bitching right now and will pull a DoH-style backpedal after launch sometime.

I think where they are now is fine but they're in a bit of a corner moving forward. The English counterparts are fine but in Japanese gladiator for example is literally "sword user" but they are already inconsistent with this because of daggers. Having a new class for every additional weapon type they want to add is silly, and it'll be awkward when gladiator gets like four types of weapons each with multiple possibilities for classes and pugilist gets... what?

[Amiricle]

1 weapon = 1 class has been the plan since day 1 and they've shown no intention of deviating from it. The way classes/jobs are designed basically requires it (unless you think it makes sense to use "fast blade" with a mace). If they do deviate from it then the whole system is just that much more needlessly ham-handed.

They deviated from it on day 1 with both THM and CON, both of which can use either 1H & shield or 2H staff.

[Hyan]

1 weapon = 1 class has been the plan since day 1 and they've shown no intention of deviating from it. The way classes/jobs are designed basically requires it (unless you think it makes sense to use "fast blade" with a mace). If they do deviate from it then the whole system is just that much more needlessly ham-handed.

You're so adamant that they can't make it happen but in all honesty you have no basis to state so. They can do it and quite easily in-fact. Just because they have had no reason to go 2 weapons = 1 class yet does not mean it is somehow outside of their reach, lol.

EDIT: The THM and CON argument is a good one. Hell, Gladiator could equip knives at some point.

And idk how you can call that anything other than retrofitting. "Rampart has increased your defense for the last 40 levels but now it increases attack"...that's retrofitting, and something like that is made even dumber by the fact that the name of the skill wouldn't even make sense anymore.

Either they go the full monty and rename and re-purpose skills entirely or they half-ass it by just changing the function, either way it's a retrofit.

Whatever bro. They can change the skills that need be changed (happens whether new jobs come or not!), but most of them can remain as-is and be modified through traits.

There's so little work that it always amuses me how it is made out to be this grand restructuring and complete rework, lol.

[xopher]

Maybe one day we'll get a sequel to Chrono Trigger!

(I liked Chrono Cross, come at me)

If you didn't like Cross you're wrong.

[Spider-Dan]

The whole class:job system was ultimately a failure anyway, they could have saved a lot of trouble by just getting rid of classes which would have trimmed a lot of the fat and cleared up a lot of confusion as well as allow them to implement new jobs more easily.

I like the idea of branching jobs, if only for the fact that you don't have to continually re-grind new jobs. Let people put in their token grind to 50 once per class and move on with life.

[gaogaostegosaurus]

They deviated from it on day 1 with both THM and CON, both of which can use either 1H & shield or 2H staff.

This is actually consistent in Japanese (although thematically odd for the reasons you stated) because the focus of DoM names is their magic type not their weapon in the original language.

It's a big cluster fuck, haha.

[Niiro]

You're so adamant that they can't make it happen but in all honesty you have no basis to state so. They can do it and quite easily in-fact. Just because they have had no reason to go 2 weapons = 1 class yet does not mean it is somehow outside of their reach, lol.

EDIT: The THM and CON argument is a good one. Hell, Gladiator could equip knives at some point.



Whatever bro. They can change the skills that need be changed (happens whether new jobs come or not!), but most of them can remain as-is and be modified through traits.

There's so little work that it always amuses me how it is made out to be this grand restructuring and complete rework, lol.

It's awkward and it makes classes even more pointless than they are.

It has nothing to do with what they can and can't do, they can do whatever they want, it's a matter of how needlessly convoluted they intend to make the system.

(also gladiator can already use knives, they're essentially just small swords)

The CNJ/THM weapon thing is also pretty irrelevant because DoM don't use their weapons or have weapon skills.

[Evane]

They deviated from it on day 1 with both THM and CON, both of which can use either 1H & shield or 2H staff.

Adding to this point, you can use low level weaponskills on different classes.

[Grey Jorildyn]

You can retrofit in interesting ways however. For example if DRK is an extension of GLA (it's not GLD, that's Goldsmith), they can get an ability that converts their defense into attack for some duration. It could be similar to Cleric Stance or something. They just need to be inventive so abilities don't lose utility when two opposed classes like PLD and DRK branch from the same area.

The weapon idea in discussion above is like a suggestion I made months ago. It's basically using basic swords for GLA then Paladins getting only Holy Swords and DRK getting Dark Swords (or Greatswords if you like). When you unlock the class it fives you a trait like "Can equip Holy Swords" for PLD and a similar one for DRK.

I dislike the class/job system too but of they're commit to this then they're gonna have to think a little broader. They could easily toss DRK onto the MRD branch and be better off though.