Comments from the Devs

[Reve]

I'm kinda really excited to see the Garuda mission cs/storylines. She was pretty batshit crazy in the old ones.

[Sephiroth]

I'm assuming the Garuda fight is a 90 minute timer? I hope that doesn't mean we can take 40% off in less then 4 minutes I forgot how Garuda worked it has phases right?

Timer is irrelevant for primals. You either beat it or you wipe and start again. You never lost in 1.0 because you ran out of time and that was on a 15 minute timer. I'm pretty sure the fight length will be similar too.

Though SE did say they are adding a way to re-challenge primals with your duty finder group if you fail so perhaps the timer is for that. IE you wipe and get put back into the starting circle rather than dumped out the instance. That 90 minute timer would then give you time for quite a few attempts.

[Foxer]

Are primals locked to once a day? If not, then that^ would be useless.

[Iremire]

Timer is irrelevant for primals. You either beat it or you wipe and start again. You never lost in 1.0 because you ran out of time and that was on a 15 minute timer. I'm pretty sure the fight length will be similar too.

Though SE did say they are adding a way to re-challenge primals with your duty finder group if you fail so perhaps the timer is for that. IE you wipe and get put back into the starting circle rather than dumped out the instance. That 90 minute timer would then give you time for quite a few attempts.

Yeah I understand that the 90 minutes is irrelevant, if you need all that time to kill it you probably shouldn't be fighting it. It was just the % of garudas HP and the amount of time on the clock, though they are probably testing damage output etc, just seems like a good chunk missing 4 minutes into the fight.

[Raldo]

Are primals locked to once a day? If not, then that^ would be useless.

The ability to re-challenge primals is useless to you? It's far from useless. Did you play during Phase 3 at all? Do you want to re-enter the dungeon finder queue from the back all over again and end up with different people who may or may not know what to watch for?

[Vuitton]

The ability to re-challenge primals is useless to you? It's far from useless. Did you play during Phase 3 at all? Do you want to re-enter the dungeon finder queue from the back all over again and end up with different people who may or may not know what to watch for?

If the group sucks, yeah that would be nice. But nothing stops you from dropping group and re-queuing. I wonder if SE is going to implement a dungeon deserter debuff to dissuade that actually...

[Fievel]

Yeah I understand that the 90 minutes is irrelevant, if you need all that time to kill it you probably shouldn't be fighting it. It was just the % of garudas HP and the amount of time on the clock, though they are probably testing damage output etc, just seems like a good chunk missing 4 minutes into the fight.

Well, they're killing her a bit slowly compared to the 1.0 fight.

Everything is different now though, and it's just a random dev pic, so we probably shouldn't think much into her HP or the time.

[solracht]

dungeon deserter debuff

I think this will happen sooner or later in some way or form, but so far there's been no mention of it

[Raldo]

Having never played an MMO with a duty finder sort of thing, this question may be naive, but is that really such a rampant problem that it deserves some sort of debuff? In Phase 3, I never had a single person bail out of a duty finder group except in rare cases where it was absolutely reasonable to do so (disconnections, unable to proceed, etc.).

[Spider-Dan]

Why would you want to give people a debuff for ragequitting? That just punishes their next group.

At worst, limit re-queueing to once every 10 minutes.

[Gokulo]

At worst, limit re-queueing to once every 10 minutes.

I believe that's what people mean by dungeon deserter debuff (at least that's how I remember it to work in other MMOs).

[Waraji]

The Debuff in WoW, correct me if I'm completely wrong, was forcing you to wait X amount of time after deserting in order to be able to queue up again.

[Foxer]

The ability to re-challenge primals is useless to you? It's far from useless. Did you play during Phase 3 at all? Do you want to re-enter the dungeon finder queue from the back all over again and end up with different people who may or may not know what to watch for?

Um? I was going by what someone said about it being possible for you to have 90 minutes to keep attempting the fight with the same PUG. If you're really attempting an 7-8 minute fight for 90 minutes, then it was time to drop and re-queue a while ago. Also, we're talking about primal fights here; there is no "from the back all over again".

If the group sucks, yeah that would be nice. But nothing stops you from dropping group and re-queuing. I wonder if SE is going to implement a dungeon deserter debuff to dissuade that actually...

This. Since there is no drop-out debuff, my question still stands if dungeons are locked to once a day. Would be pretty silly to implement a system where you attempt the fight with the same scrubs for 90 minutes, when you can just drop and re-queue.

The Debuff in WoW, correct me if I'm completely wrong, was forcing you to wait X amount of time after deserting in order to be able to queue up again.

Same with TERA. Something like this would make sense.

[Raldo]

Um? I was going by what someone said about it being possible for you to have 90 minutes to keep attempting the fight with the same PUG. If you're really attempting an 7-8 minute fight for 90 minutes, then it was time to drop and re-queue a while ago. Also, we're talking about primal fights here; there is no "from the back all over again".

Did you use the duty finder in Phase 3? The "back" I was referring to, was the back of the duty finder queue, not the encounter itself. DDs would commonly wait 30 minutes or more to get into a dungeon. I could envision that story-related quests such as the Ifrit fight might be even longer, once the initial wave of people are through it. "Oh shoot, we got it under 10%, but we lost. Now I have to wait in the queue again just to have another go at it." Does that sound fun to you? Given the chance to retry the same encounter, with the same people who hopefully learned from their mistakes can be a huge boon. Sure, if you've lost several times, it's time to abandon the group, but it's not as useless as you say.

Case in point, during Phase 3, I had a group doing Ifrit where one of the DDs didn't know about the fetter you had to take down (or didn't see it?). Had we been able to retry with the same group, we should've been fine.

[lokki]

The Debuff in WoW, correct me if I'm completely wrong, was forcing you to wait X amount of time after deserting in order to be able to queue up again.

Which dropping group as a healer in this game is really going to help the dungeon queue. I ended up doing this a few times so...

[Vuitton]

The Debuff in WoW, correct me if I'm completely wrong, was forcing you to wait X amount of time after deserting in order to be able to queue up again.

Correct! It's main purpose was to keep the prima donna healers and tanks in check. Tanks can get a group almost instantly and healers, if not instant, within five minutes, so without a debuff limiting the ability to drop group and re-queue quickly, you run the risk of grouping with Queen Tanks and Queen Healers who will be bossy little bitches who throw tantrums if you don't do things their way (or if you suck) and they'll just ditch your ass leaving you to wait around 15-20 minutes for a new tank or healer while they go get new groups almost instantly.

[Foxer]

Did you use the duty finder in Phase 3? The "back" I was referring to, was the back of the duty finder queue, not the encounter itself. DDs would commonly wait 30 minutes or more to get into a dungeon. I could envision that story-related quests such as the Ifrit fight might be even longer, once the initial wave of people are through it. "Oh shoot, we got it under 10%, but we lost. Now I have to wait in the queue again just to have another go at it." Does that sound fun to you? Given the chance to retry the same encounter, with the same people who hopefully learned from their mistakes can be a huge boon. Sure, if you've lost several times, it's time to abandon the group, but it's not as useless as you say.

Case in point, during Phase 3, I had a group doing Ifrit where one of the DDs didn't know about the fetter you had to take down (or didn't see it?). Had we been able to retry with the same group, we should've been fine.

lol yeah, you didn't understand me. The fact that you can re-enter with the same group is fantastic. It's actually quite sad that that wasn't standard to begin with.

Implementing a 90 minute re-enter system with the same group would be useless, if the instances aren't locked to 1 attempt a day. That's what I was saying.

[Raldo]

Ah, I gotcha*, my bad.

*I actually still don't understand what you're trying to say, but whatever, not important.

[Sephiroth]

Yeah the restart with same group thing will shine the most for story quests. I can't imagine many people using the duty finder for end-game content. Maybe older content that has solid strategies out for the masses but not newer stuff. This is why I wish there was proper cross server play with friend lists, so you could add competent players from other servers and form groups with these people whenever. Most of the system for that is already built, how hard could it be to paste friend lists on top?

[Foxer]

Does any game have that? I have always wanted that in TERA but the lack of servers rendered it kinda usless in the end.