Comments from the Devs

[Scythiroth]

@toki

And dungeon gear, depending on your luck/people you play with.

[Charismatic]

Simple fucking economics.

Economy A has a billion Gil. Economy B has 100,000 Gil. Prices are not going to be the same between the two economies. Prices will reflect the current money present in the economy. Just because item A costs 200k in economy A it could cost 2,000 in economy B.

But NPC costs and gil sinks (assuming there are any) and stuff like that will not be different relative to the amount of gil around.
Simple fucking economics indeed.

[Sephiroth]

Jesus christ, can you guys take your legacy bitching back to the beta forums?

[Eanae]

And if Gil will be getting destroyed the economy will still adjust accordingly.

[shidobu]

i may be late to the party.. but did anybody else not see these? http://imgur.com/a/msoSV#0

[solracht]

did you guys see cait sith in those pictures

[Charismatic]

And if Gil will be getting destroyed the economy will still adjust accordingly.

All the while we ignore the fact that this changes the relative cost of all of the things like housing (this sounds like it'll be the big one during the launch window), teleportation, presently unnamed gil sinks, et al.

Basically, everything from NPCs is going to be 'relatively' more expensive on non-legacy servers due to having the same prices as legacy and everything from players is probably going to be 'relatively' more expensive due to lower supply and greater demand.
Simple fucking economics, bro.

[Spider-Dan]

But NPC costs and gil sinks (assuming there are any) and stuff like that will not be different relative to the amount of gil around.
Simple fucking economics indeed.

This.

And if Gil will be getting destroyed the economy will still adjust accordingly.

Your ability to make income in a non-legacy server is restricted by the speed at which the playerbase on that server can generate gil (through questing, etc.). On a non-legacy server, there is no such restriction.

[shidobu]

Did the last few pages really just happen?

I'm actually disappointed at the internet.

i was just joking about the legacy scum part. THen these niggas (being bg as usual) started going off the wall with it

[Eanae]

This.


Your ability to make income in a non-legacy server is restricted by the speed at which the playerbase on that server can generate gil (through questing, etc.). On a non-legacy server, there is no such restriction.

Which makes it worse for a new player starting there because the economy will be growing quicker than they can generate Gil.

Housing is good point and probably the only thing we currently know of that's a Gil sink at 50 that could have any effect on a legacy vs new server economy.

[Spider-Dan]

Who buys gear from NPCs? You can get a full mage set and melee set of gear for each level range just by questing.

Weapons/consumables.

Furthermore, since everyone (on all servers) will be going through main scenario quests, a large number of legacy players will be going through quests on ACN, and legacy players are nearly certain to pick Allegan pieces as quest rewards (instead of gear), that's just increasing the gil lead on legacy servers (until non-legacies get to the point of questing on 2nd/3rd/etc. classes).

[Raldo]

Also, legacy players are less likely to teleport as much since they have access to mounts from the start. That's probably very minor, but still another thing... or are they more likely to teleport because they got fast stacks o' cash? Hmm, I may have just punched a hole in my own thinking.

Fucking economics

[Deuce]

I have a good feeling this supposed big dick status, and their established economy thing isn't going to last very long at all. I'm guessing with gear patches, new dungeons, new materials, and how easy it is to hit 50, everything should be caught up within a couple of months soon. I don't see a lot of BG people boasting about it though, so it's cool. Was quite different in the beta with duty finder though.

The whole legacy argument is what this forum goes back to when there isn't any new information. Happens every time between phases with long breaks of new info.

As for catching up? I don't think it'll happen as fast as you would think, especially with how easy leveling became in 1.2X near the end. I know several people in my group of friends who have all or nearly every class at 50 with the gear and gil to back it up. I myself, who came back in March of last year was able to get 9 classes to 50, all DoW/DoM capped and BOT/MIN too, before servers went down. I consider that a pretty significant head start and it was one of the incentives for me to come back. I believe non-legacy servers won't catch up until at least a year after release. Even then, legacy servers will have a slight advantage over non-legacy if you consider the majority. Hardcore players will probably be able to catch up to someone such as myself, but that doesn't mean the average player will be even close at that point.

[Eanae]

The whole legacy argument is what this forum goes back to when there isn't any new information. Happens every time between phases with long breaks of new info.

As for catching up? I don't think it'll happen as fast as you would think, especially with how easy leveling became in 1.2X near the end. I know several people in my group of friends who have all or nearly every class at 50 with the gear and gil to back it up. I myself, who came back in March of last year was able to get 9 classes to 50, all DoW/DoM capped and BOT/MIN too, before servers went down. I consider that a pretty significant head start and it was one of the incentives for me to come back. I believe non-legacy servers won't catch up until at least a year after release. Even then, legacy servers will have a slight advantage over non-legacy if you consider the majority. Hardcore players will probably be able to catch up to someone such as myself, but that doesn't mean the average player will be even close at that point.

1 year probably seems about right if you factor getting all jobs 50 into things, but I'd say 6 months for legacy and new servers to be equal (or new server slightly behind) in endgame progression.

[Foxer]

That's what I mean. I don't think your average player is going to care about getting all classes to 50. They're going to focus on what they want to play only. As for money, only anything expensive from NPCs will be a problem for us. Assuming everything for housing even comes from NPCs and requires gil.

As for kills, clears, and gear, I still go with both kinds of servers being completely equal by the time the first real patch rolls in.

[Spider-Dan]

Which makes it worse for a new player starting there because the economy will be growing quicker than they can generate Gil.

That's ridiculous.

On a legacy server, a lowbie has the option to go farm/gather and sell the items in the wards to rich legacy players. (Furthermore, the prices for these items are likely to be driven up quickly, as rich legacy players are less apt to hold off on buying an item because of a price difference in the tens or hundreds digit.)
On a non-legacy server, the lowbie chooses from the following:

1) there is no demand for said item because crafters aren't high enough yet
2) he has to sell the items for pennies because pennies are all that anyone has (and everyday gil sinks like teleports are a significant cost competitor)

[Hioki]

The whole legacy argument is what this forum goes back to when there isn't any new information. Happens every time between phases with long breaks of new info.

As for catching up? I don't think it'll happen as fast as you would think, especially with how easy leveling became in 1.2X near the end. I know several people in my group of friends who have all or nearly every class at 50 with the gear and gil to back it up. I myself, who came back in March of last year was able to get 9 classes to 50, all DoW/DoM capped and BOT/MIN too, before servers went down. I consider that a pretty significant head start and it was one of the incentives for me to come back. I believe non-legacy servers won't catch up until at least a year after release. Even then, legacy servers will have a slight advantage over non-legacy if you consider the majority. Hardcore players will probably be able to catch up to someone such as myself, but that doesn't mean the average player will be even close at that point.

Dunno, The new leveling system is kinda crazy with how many ways there are to get xp. I wouldn't be surprised if most people have 4-5 classes at 50 a couple months out.

[Sephiroth]

Weapons/consumables.

Furthermore, since everyone (on all servers) will be going through main scenario quests, a large number of legacy players will be going through quests on ACN, and legacy players are nearly certain to pick Allegan pieces as quest rewards (instead of gear), that's just increasing the gil lead on legacy servers (until non-legacies get to the point of questing on 2nd/3rd/etc. classes).

From what I saw in beta picking allegan pieces is almost always better than gear because you can buy the gear with the money from allegan pieces and still have change. But the masses won't know that and it is a convenience thing to pick gear in some cases.

Also, legacy players are less likely to teleport as much since they have access to mounts from the start. That's probably very minor, but still another thing... or are they more likely to teleport because they got fast stacks o' cash? Hmm, I may have just punched a hole in my own thinking.

Fucking economics

I'd say more likely. Teleport cost is insignificant for most legacy players but it is quite high if you're starting new. It adds up fast. Repairs by NPC is another thing that adds up fast too, new players will be more likely to get player repairs.

[Eanae]

Without the bazaar system player repairs are currently a complete nightmare as far as i cam tell. SE needs to rethink that one.

[Deuce]

1 year probably seems about right if you factor getting all jobs 50 into things, but I'd say 6 months for legacy and new servers to be equal (or new server slightly behind) in endgame progression.

Hardcore and some non-hardcore players? Definitely, considering how many people will be playing this game with prior MMO experience. As for your average joe? I expect them to be somewhere around a few capped jobs/classes with a sprinkle of endgame progression. It'll be interesting to see how the two groups develop separately. My guess is that endgame discussion won't be as interesting until everyone has had a chance to check it out. I just hope it doesn't become a legacy circlejerk.