2011 MLB Season Discussion: Joey Votto MVP Edition

[fren.]

are you joking? not sure if serious

So, can we just add up a player’s offensive RAR or WAR and his defensive UZR (or DRS)? Nope. That is adding apples and oranges. Does everyone, including FG, do it? Yup. Are they doing it wrong? Absolutely.

- Mitchel Lichtman from insidethebook.com, creator of UZR

Carlos Lee has a 16.4 UZR this season. UZR's creators fully admit that it's flawed. Throwing around WAR as the end all be all doesn't make you look smart, please stop trying.

As for the Granderson/Ellsbury comp, no, I wasn't kidding because it's not fucking rocket science to figure out who the better player is according to wOBA/wRC+

http://giving-chase.com/2011/08/07/b...you-are-wrong/

lol what the fuck, this proves nothing. The dude doesn't even address the fact that you need at least three years of conclusive data for WAR to be taken somewhat seriously, and even then it's still fickle as hell.

[Bregor]

Oh man I love these Yankees/Red Sox games when Beckett is pitczzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Conrad]

Carlos Lee has a 16.4 UZR this season. UZR's creators fully admit that it's flawed. Throwing around WAR as the end all be all doesn't make you look smart, please stop trying.

As for the Granderson/Ellsbury comp, no, I wasn't kidding because it's not fucking rocket science to figure out who the better player is according to wOBA/wRC+



lol what the fuck, this proves nothing. The dude doesn't even address the fact that you need at least three years of conclusive data for WAR to be taken somewhat seriously, and even then it's still fickle as hell.

2. Calculating Defense: Each system uses a different defensive metric. fWAR uses UZR, while rWAR uses TotalZone (developed by Sean Smith). UZR is more accurate but is only available from 2002 onward, while TotalZone values can be calculated for any player in baseball history.

As a result of these differences, rWAR values typically come in lower than fWAR values, meaning a 6 rWAR is more impressive than 6 fWAR. For more on the differences between fWAR and rWAR, please read these links: The Book Blog discussion, On Fielding Differences, and On Scaling.

I think you might have some misconceptions regarding the statistic, first off being that you're discounting it because it's not infallible.

[Cephius]

He's right. WAR is on the way out, UZR and total zone just aren't accurate enough and it's becoming increasingly clear. With things like fieldfx on the way they hope to get reliable data, and more of it, so runs saved can be accurately calculated. WAR is great in theory, giving players as much credit for saving runs as creating them. But it's too far from reliable right now, especially for broad comparisons of players in small (1 year) sample sizes.

[Cephius]

Also, this is clear evidence Ryan Braun does not deserve the MVP.

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-conten...ggGPybaMVl.gif

[Moss]

How can you be MVP when you can't even RUN!!!

[Moss]

MATT DIAZ IS BACK

[Conrad]

MATT DIAZ IS BACK

FUCK

[Akiyama]

Braves just made a trade for the Mariners' Jack Wilson. o.O

[Moss]

what the shit

[Akiyama]

what the shit

gave up a player to be named later. maybe that means they'll DFA Lugo, god knows he's been completely worthless.

[Moss]

need a back up middle infielder I guess. could do much worse, dude can still field

[Akiyama]

Eh, I'd say he's slightly above average. As a batter, he brings basically nothing, which is way more than Lugo's 'absolutely nothing'.. so definite upgrade ;o

[Moss]

Perhaps he brings a more professional AB than Gonzalez? Without the pop of course

[Akiyama]

I'd still take Gonzalez's fielding over Jack Wilson's. Gonzo acutally has the best UZR/fielding numbers in the league, so.. he's saved his share of runs. Lugo, when he was in, was completely useless in all facets of the game, so Jack Wilson basically slots in there. That also means no more Lugo pinch at bats. Yay

[Penthesilea]

Could always use Brooks Conrad

[Akiyama]

Could always use Brooks Conrad

Fuck you bitch, he only hits.

[Soa]

The Braves are on pace to win 96 games this year....... and finish 10 games out of 1st. That's pretty crazy.

[Akiyama]

The Braves are on pace to win 96 games this year....... and finish 10 games out of 1st. That's pretty crazy.

I'm okay with that. I came into the season knowing they'd be out by at least 8 games out, and it's nice to see I know what I'm talking about sometimes ;o I'm surprised they'd win 96, though. I figured 92-93 would be a nice number. My god are they destroying the wild card race, though and with the guys they snagged yesterday, they only got better (it means Lugo can gtfo)

allow me to also say I'm stunned that Lowe made such a great start last night. hitting a homer AND allowing just one run?

[Byrd]

The Braves are on pace to win 96 games this year....... and finish 10 games out of 1st. That's pretty crazy.

The 2001 Oakland A's are unimpressed. 102 wins, 14 games out of 1st.