2011 MLB Season Discussion: Joey Votto MVP Edition

[Tagus]

The Marlin's aren't really a good example. Wayne Huizenga owned the stadium, not to mention was one of the wealthiest men in the world, before he started the team. He didn't need investors. It's freaking amazing the Pirates are actually profitable though.

[Demosthenes11]

the team's payroll is 46m and are in a big sports town...that's why they are profitable.

profitability has very, very little to do with comparative competitiveness

[Cephius]

I'm still confused why you correlate competitiveness with viability for an expansion team. What big markets are even left to expand into?

[Demosthenes11]

I said the biggest markets I could think of.

I correlate everything with viability because the mlb is much less likely to expand into smaller markets because of profitability (to the mlb). A smaller market team has fewer sales. A smaller market team is less likely to be competitive. A less competitive team has smaller sales. It's a negative feedback loop until you get lucky with talent, who then only stay until the yankees buy them when their contract ends. Other sports work a little better with smaller market teams because the talent is on a more even playing field.

[Tagus]

Not to mention that the MLB owners are like a good ol' boys club... they see every expansion team as a monstrous risk. It's like bidding for the f'ing olympics from what I've heard, only the owners don't HAVE to accept at least one every few years.

[Cephius]

A smaller market team has fewer sales.

Except the data just doesn't support this. Texas is the 5th largest media market in the US and they drew lower attendance figures (14th overall) than Atlanta (13th) Milwaukee (11th) Colorado (10th) and Minnesota (6th) so the data would seem not to agree with you. The teams who drew the fewest fans (Oakland and Cleveland) are relatively large markets with decent resources.

A smaller market team is less likely to be competitive. A less competitive team has smaller sales. It's a negative feedback loop until you get lucky with talent, who then only stay until the yankees buy them when their contract ends. Other sports work a little better with smaller market teams because the talent is on a more even playing field.

Less likely to be competitive, sure. But teams like the Rays have proven that you can build through the draft and succeed with small payrolls. Also, with plans to make an international amatuer draft, the playing field will be leveled even more when teams like the Yankees and Red Sox can't drop millions of dollars on Dominican or Mexican FAs. History has shown that expansion teams can both compete and remain commercially viable, you have yet to provide any evidence or history backing up your side...

[Demosthenes11]

Except the data just doesn't support this. Texas is the 5th largest media market in the US and they drew lower attendance figures (14th overall) than Atlanta (13th) Milwaukee (11th) Colorado (10th) and Minnesota (6th) so the data would seem not to agree with you. The teams who drew the fewest fans (Oakland and Cleveland) are relatively large markets with decent resources.

Texas is the asshole of the USA (especially dallas) so it's not really indicative. they dont have the attention span for baseball. Oakland and cleveland are some of the worst off cities in the US economically right now, so again, not good examples. Denver and minnesota are good teams right now, so typically attendance would be up there.

Less likely to be competitive, sure. But teams like the Rays have proven that you can build through the draft and succeed with small payrolls. Also, with plans to make an international amatuer draft, the playing field will be leveled even more when teams like the Yankees and Red Sox can't drop millions of dollars on Dominican or Mexican FAs. History has shown that expansion teams can both compete and remain commercially viable, you have yet to provide any evidence or history backing up your side...

again, saying a team did fine with less talent doesnt mean it's even. It's not. The A's and the yankees are not on an even playing field. I have no idea why you are trying to argue that they are.

[pohibaba]

We have too many teams in baseball as it is; the last thing we need is more. If I were running the league I would contract the Rays and the Padres and then reorganize the divisions to be equal again.


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[Cephius]

Texas is the asshole of the USA (especially dallas) so it's not really indicative. they dont have the attention span for baseball. Oakland and cleveland are some of the worst off cities in the US economically right now, so again, not good examples. Denver and minnesota are good teams right now, so typically attendance would be up there.



again, saying a team did fine with less talent doesnt mean it's even. It's not. The A's and the yankees are not on an even playing field. I have no idea why you are trying to argue that they are.

Well, at least now I know you're just trolling.

[Alderaan]

I'd prefer they go back to the east and west and just have the top 3 teams from both make the playoffs. On the other hand, i hate seeing the World Series in November so meh.

I'm pretty sure baseball, basketball and hockey would be a better product with contraction but the big wigs won't let that happen.

[Ohemgee]

Anibal Sanchez almost had his second no-hitter. Broken up in the ninth.

The marlins are on a tear right now with the best bullpen in the league. Also doing well without LoMo and a struggling Hanley.

John Buck, Gaby Sanchez and even Emelioooooooooo Bonifacio are really stepping it up on the home stand. Not to mention our back up catcher is like 7/9 off the bench.

[Akiyama]

Chipper's right knee is 'sore' so he may miss a couple games. GASP. Didn't see that coming.

[Soa]

What two markets would you put a new team into?

I wasn't actually serious about that, but if I had to pick I would say a third team in New York and one in San Antonio. Both markets are very economically viable, and I know that San Antonio has been trying to get a team for years, but is being cock blocked by the Rangers. Of course this would never happen thanks to the owners being so stingy with territorial rights, and Bud Selig is too much of a pussy to step on their toes and get it done (hello A's stadium clusterfuck).

The more realistic options would probably be something like Oklahoma City, Portland, or Charlotte.

[fren.]

How the fuck are the Yankees supposed to sign FA's if these assholes keep locking up their franchise players for 20+ years? I'm still in pain over the Tulo deal.

[*Shinzon*]

Don't worry. I'm sure the Mets will trade you wright so you can move arod to DH, and then sign reyes as a FA.

[BadKarma]

How the fuck are the Yankees supposed to sign FA's if these assholes keep locking up their franchise players for 20+ years? I'm still in pain over the Tulo deal.

A yankees fan wanting to throw money at a problem? Shocker

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[Akiyama]

Sarcasm's a fun thing.

[Headspace]

Sarcasm's a fun thing.

Implying that shit was sarcasm.

[Zoolander]

wtf, Bautista has gotten on base 9/9 at bats last two games against the Rays (and 3 HRs) and is 10 out of his last 10 at bats.

[Aksannyi]

Yeah that's uh .... damn. And wtf at Price pitching like a boss through eight then falling apart in the 9th.

Seriously Rays, do not throw this one away today I am already pissed off enough at the goddamn Pens.




All us Tampa posters should get together and go to a game and act inappropriate in public. We can call it FailFest '11: Rays edition.