Proccing Discernment during Tp Test Results

**Ocara** · 2011-04-01 21:33

Followup to random question line of discussion about whether discernment can proc on the correct ws while the enemy is in a tp/spell/un-proccable state. ( http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/102...=1#post4515228 )

Test was as so: Fight nm, find weakness using discernment to narrow down weakness ws either by deduction (single element/process of elimination) or triggering it. Then use correct ws during tp chargeup/animation and watch for discernment message. Only data I counted towards the test were ws I was 100% were the trigger and did not stagger the mob.

Started on t1 vnms but it was too slow, for the last half ws I moved to Ayravata since he had a lot of hp, did long tp moves often, and was relatively easy to stay alive against on nin solo. Out of the 40-50 correct red weakness ws done during tp, none ever proceed discernment. (had to manually count once I realized there was no easy way to pull this data from the parser so I lowballed the number I'd done until then, was at least 40.) Sample size isn't huge, but it seems convincing enough that the correct ws will not proc discernment when a mob is in a non-proc state (tp/spell/etc) considering discernment's proc rate is not extremely low. It stands to reason the same is true for grellow spells and blue ws as well.

Here's the parse of the test if anyone wants it: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B5R...NGYwOTY3&hl=en

**Yugl** · 2011-04-01 21:35

Well there you have it folks. No more on this issue please.

**Lyall** · 2011-04-01 21:42

Nice work. This came up on Vent tonight and apparently most of my shell hadn't heard this, so thanks for the (basically) concrete confirmation. Sample size is good enough for me~

**Fievel** · 2011-04-01 22:09

Thanks so much for the testing Ocara.

**Cybaster** · 2011-04-01 22:11

I think the only times you can get a discernment proc message in a non-proc state is during the !! effect itself (terror/amnesia/silence from respective !!) Can anyone reconfirm this?

**NynJa** · 2011-04-01 22:26

Lets be honest here:

Originally Posted by Thorny, Failure, or someone similar

Your THF did something wrong then, plain and simple. Since the inception of Discernment, we've never had a target spell/WS proc a message when its usage wasnt clean.

Do you still argue the statement and go through with this controlled test?...or accept it because they said it?

**Ocara** · 2011-04-02 00:32

Originally Posted by NynJa

Lets be honest here:

Do you still argue the statement and go through with this controlled test?...or accept it because they said it?

If you were talking to me... I did the test because yours was uncontrolled and there were two conflicting reports. I had no leaning or expectations either way, I just wanted it known under proper testing conditions. (Especially since it's kind of useful to be sure of.)

**Fallyn** · 2011-04-02 06:30

Originally Posted by Cybaster

I think the only times you can get a discernment proc message in a non-proc state is during the !! effect itself (terror/amnesia/silence from respective !!) Can anyone reconfirm this?

That's what I've been led to believe; we sometimes just use a ton of ele WS when it's grellow/blue'd so we can try and narrow proc down whilst we wait for it to wear.

**Cybaster** · 2011-04-03 00:07

No timestamp sorry, but I can vouch that this is within 30s of blue proc since it happened just now. The monk and the ninja only manages 2 full round of melee. Blue proc at the top, yellow discernment message at the bottom of the pic;

Non-proc state: WS/Casting/!! effect
Non-discernable state: WS/Casting

**Ocara** · 2011-04-03 03:17

Originally Posted by Cybaster

I think the only times you can get a discernment proc message in a non-proc state is during the !! effect itself (terror/amnesia/silence from respective !!) Can anyone reconfirm this?

I got discernment procs using the non-weakness ws during tp moves during this very test, if that's what you're asking. This was strictly testing if discern can proc on the correct weakness spell/ws during a non-proc state. Other ws/spells can still proc discernment during tp at the least, and likely during any state.

**Cybaster** · 2011-04-03 05:32

I must be getting the concept mixed up then

1. Any ws/spell can only trigger message when it's clean
2. Correct ws/spell cannot trigger a message when it's not clean

I was thinking the first one, but from your test you say second one is correct while first one is false.

**Byrthnoth** · 2011-04-03 07:18

I think it's "Correct WS/Spell cannot ever trigger the message." They did it during a non-proc state because Discernment obviously doesn't proc if you stagger the monster.

Relevant question might be, "Can you get Discernment to proc (for Red !! for instance) after you have triggered the weakness once?" I'm guessing yes, but I can't say I've honestly paid enough attention to remember because Discernment procs stop mattering after you get the weakness once.

**Yugl** · 2011-04-03 12:33

Definitely does continue to proc.

**NynJa** · 2011-04-03 13:50

Discernment will still proc after getting message.

Evis durring cast, Percy was also stunned, but no message regardless

Spoiler: show

Incase some people still doubt this, invalid WS's, like spells, can be used for discernment

Spoiler: show

Here we have the blue !! proc

Spoiler: show

and here we have discernment for blue!! loading after it had already been done

Spoiler: show

full battle log in spoiler incase anyone doubts this is from the same fight

Spoiler: show

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