Sony Offline Entertainment (Hacking of PSN and SOE)

[OWS_Tonx]

If you care enough to actually read what's in the EULA:

http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/p..._tosua_en.html

tl;dr: From what I read, this EULA only applies to things that involve PSN, not offline content.


The System Software License Agreement:

http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html

The part you're concerned with:






Shits in black and white. I don't like it, but at this point, it sounds like he may have done some of these things. Who actually reads this shit though? And when exactly do you agree to these terms? From the moment you purchase the PS3? Are you supposed to go online and agree to these terms prior to purchasing a PS3? Do you buy the PS3, turn it on, and then HAVE to agree or not play your PS3?

Meh.

Someone mentioned earlier that, yes, when you buy it you agree not to do said things

[Sagacious Sundi]

If my eyes rolled any harder while reading that letter they would have fallen out of my head.

I don't think I've rolled my eyes that much since my last demonic possession.

[zoobernut]

ITT: People think all games are developed by Sony or that all game developers can afford to have their game stolen and stay in business.

People really have no idea how the video game industry works do they or who they are actually hurting when they pirate games.

[AZbadfish]

I just wanna take this moment to say: Raytheon, you are a fucking retard.

Everyone else has been ignoring your idiotic posts in this thread, and I should probably do the same, but holy fucking balls, I don't see how you manage to survive each day. I sincerely hope that you never become any sort of legislature, because then businesses couldn't take action against anyone that cost them 1% or less of their profits...

"Oh, he didn't make 1.37 billion off of it, so what's the big deal?"...

Fucking /facepalm...

I can verify that Raytheon is in fact VP of Operations of a decently sized IT/security contracting company - no joke. Also, his forearms are bigger than my thighs, not relevant just saying he is a sexy mofo.

Anyways - I've hated Sony since before hating Sony was cool, back when it was still underground hatin'. Now that there's a bandwagon, I welcome all the new Sony haters.

While I'm shady on the details, I think hotz is a pretty cool guy. eh hacks PS3s and doesn't afraid of anything. As far as the car analogy, I think a lot of you are putting more into it than is necessary. The point is you purchased the product and it should be yours to do with whatever you want. If hotz actually hacked into Sony's "secure" database or whatever to find these keys, that's a different story. But it doesn't sound like that's what he did. TOS/EULA type arguments in my mind are invalid - those don't even come up until AFTER you've already purchased it and ripped open the box once you get it home. If you think it is valid try this: go buy a new game/console whatever and take it out of it's packaging. Go as far as you can until you get to the TOS. Do NOT agree to it, instead call up customer service and tell them you don't agree to their TOS and want a full refund. Let me know how that goes...

[Raytheon]

ITT: People think all games are developed by Sony or that all game developers can afford to have their game stolen and stay in business.

People really have no idea how the video game industry works do they or who they are actually hurting when they pirate games.

I assume you're compiling a plethora of information that will enlighten the rest of us troglodytes on just exactly how the video game industry works?

[Fhqwghads]

The part you're concerned with:

Shits in black and white. I don't like it, but at this point, it sounds like he may have done some of these things. Who actually reads this shit though? And when exactly do you agree to these terms? From the moment you purchase the PS3? Are you supposed to go online and agree to these terms prior to purchasing a PS3? Do you buy the PS3, turn it on, and then HAVE to agree or not play your PS3?

Meh.

EULAs are complete bullshit though. They're not a legal binding document, and you're not violating any laws if you don't follow them. It's a scare tactic. I could easily distribute a piece of software that won't work until you agree to sign over your house to me, but you think that shit will actually stand up in court? Hardly. Same with this.

What it boils down to is this Geo guy is going to fuck shit up for everyone else with his seemingly cocky attitude and bad defense approach. If he'd just hacked teh gibson and left it at that, not trying to make money, and not virtually giving Sony the finger, he'd be in a hell of a lot better position. If the court sides with Sony it's going to begin setting a precedence that people do *not* own certain products they buy. That should never be the case.

[Bregor]

ITT: People think all games are developed by Sony or that all game developers can afford to have their game stolen and stay in business.

People really have no idea how the video game industry works do they or who they are actually hurting when they pirate games.

You know Sony puts its life on the line and then someone comes along and pushes a couple of buttons and reaps all that benefit. It's just wrong.

http://www.simianuprising.com/images/mannyperry.jpg

[Raytheon]

EULAs are complete bullshit though. They're not a legal binding document, and you're not violating any laws if you don't follow them. It's a scare tactic. I could easily distribute a piece of software that won't work until you agree to sign over your house to me, but you think that shit will actually stand up in court? Hardly. Same with this.

What it boils down to is this Geo guy is going to fuck shit up for everyone else with his seemingly cocky attitude and bad defense approach. If he'd just hacked teh gibson and left it at that, not trying to make money, and not virtually giving Sony the finger, he'd be in a hell of a lot better position. If the court sides with Sony it's going to begin setting a precedence that people do *not* own certain products they buy. That should never be the case.

I agree 100%. If this does set a precedence on what you actually *own* and don't own, when you're shelling out hundreds of dollars for this this, I won't be buying anymore consoles, especially Sony ones.

I love console gaming, but you just don't have these kinds of BS problems on PC, at least I haven't heard of them. Maybe my heads under a rock though...

[aurik]

If you care enough to actually read what's in the EULA...

Shits in black and white. I don't like it, but at this point, it sounds like he may have done some of these things. Who actually reads this shit though? And when exactly do you agree to these terms? From the moment you purchase the PS3? Are you supposed to go online and agree to these terms prior to purchasing a PS3? Do you buy the PS3, turn it on, and then HAVE to agree or not play your PS3?

Meh.

And how much of that EULA is actually enforceable? I mean, Toyota could put in their sales agreement that by purchasing and using their proprietary internal car software you agree not to make any unauthorized modifications to the car, only get it serviced at official Toyota locations, but guess what, that doesn't fly.

No-reverse-engineering clauses for hardware have often been held as void. No-reverse-engineering clauses for software have sometimes been upheld, but sometimes not. It depends on what you are aiming at doing. And this is where the legal gray area begins.

[Eggroll]

Continuing with the terrible car analogies, I think it'd be more comparable to compare it to road upkeep and tax evasion. The car in this scenario is the console, which is only useful if there are roads to drive it on (games), normally if a new road is built the cost is covered by the community, but in this case, it'd be as if Hotz had enabled people to evade taxes that would normally pay for the road.. or something. Ok, I admit I have no idea what I'm talking about.

[aurik]

What it boils down to is this Geo guy is going to fuck shit up for everyone else with his seemingly cocky attitude and bad defense approach. If he'd just hacked teh gibson and left it at that, not trying to make money, and not virtually giving Sony the finger, he'd be in a hell of a lot better position. If the court sides with Sony it's going to begin setting a precedence that people do *not* own certain products they buy. That should never be the case.

I think Hotz has been doing OK. He managed to win on the iphone jailbreak issue, so it's not like he's a nobody.

As to the issue of a "shitty defense", there's no such thing as a decent defense when the opposition is a multibillion dollar international syndicate who only care about burying you.

[aurik]

Continuing with the terrible car analogies, I think it'd be more comparable to compare it to road upkeep and tax evasion. The car in this scenario is the console, which is only useful if there are roads to drive it on (games), normally if a new road is built the cost is covered by the community, but in this case, it'd be as if Hotz had enabled people to evade taxes that would normally pay for the road.. or something. Ok, I admit I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Except that PS3 consoles are actually useful in the absence of games.

[*Shinzon*]

Which was the point Aurik made to me when I mistakenly said I said earlier in the thread, it's not correct.

[archibaldcrane]

Can someone explain how this is fundamentally different from jailbreaking an iphone? (which is legal)

[aurik]

Jailbreaking an iphone is specifically legal because an exception has been added to the dmca that explicitly makes it legal to jailbreak mobile phones. Thus, jailbreaking mobile phones has become fundamentally different from jailbreaking other devices.

Confusing? Illogical? You bet.

[archibaldcrane]

It took specific recent legal action to get that added, didn't it?

[aurik]

Yes. http://www.copyright.gov/1201/ However, the lack of a specific exemption doesn't mean that a specific activity is illegal, or that anti-reverse-engineering provisions will be ultimately found to be enforceable in a court of law.

[zoobernut]

I assume you're compiling a plethora of information that will enlighten the rest of us troglodytes on just exactly how the video game industry works?

Really your posts go beyond uninformed and asinine to the point where it isn't even worthwhile.

Here is a story of how games get developed(some of the greatest games out there started small): Someone decides to open a game studio, they work really hard raise the capitol and begin making games. They work very hard long hours and their employees do the same because for a small developer trying to make a major game for a console it costs a lot of money. (Note, not talking about xbox live, or psn indie games that are digital distribution only and there are exceptions to this as well) They finally finish their first game. Now at this point either they get lucky and it sells really well which earns them just enough money after the publisher(sony) takes their cut to make the next game or they fail miserably and go under. The game industry is rife with companies blinking into and out of existence constantly.

On the flip side small game developer hits it big with new IP game is a huge success, Publisher buys small developer, guts said developer since they only want the IP and the name, pumps out massive quantity of shitty sequels to said popular game until the franchise dies, liquidates assets acquired when small developer was purchased, moves on to the next small developer to repeat the cycle.

For small game companies like this their profit margin on a game is razor thin, piracy has a real impact on them. I doubt people actually take the time to look at who actually developed a game before pirating it all while hiding under the "Fuck Sony" umbrella while not realizing who is really suffering from their piracy.

People just make a lot of retarded assumptions about how the game industry works or how it is structured in order to justify stealing games to make themselves feel better at night.

[archibaldcrane]

Geohot wanted to put the old operating system back in.

He isn't pirating anything. This is hand-waving.

[Charismatic]

He should have just put that shit back on his machine and left it at that.