A Song of Ice and Fire (Book discussion)

[Gadritan]

Not sure if this deal is available everywhere or how long it's going on for, but! With my B&N card I was able to get ADWD for $18.99 w/free shipping. No idea if that's available online or not. Just heard them offer it to someone else when I was browsin' around and snagged one myself.

[Rhinox]

How could anyone find anything boring that they've never read. He literally does not have any idea how exciting it actually is.

I assume he based her story around what he saw in her first chapters of book one? You should try that with Eddard, it really changes the dynamics of the rest of the books to imagine he's there saying for honor and shit.

Partly because I don't like the character and partly because I find the transition from what she started as to what she is now unconvincing.

The only thing that would be equally unconvincing would be Sam becoming first ranger.

[tyven]

Sam gonna get on atkins and prove you wrong!

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[aduidarnenye]

For me, the most unconvincing POV is Jon Snow. This is a green kid who goes to the Wall and ends up being Lord Commander in the space of three books. I don't understand why he's supposedly a great leader because he spent most of his POVs in the first two books whining about being a bastard or attempting to flee south to help his brother/father.

I like Daenarys because she goes from being an abused girl to finding the strength to lead a nation. She's never portrayed as being stupid or whiny, just kept under the thumb of Viserys.


Theorycraft for ADwD:

Who do you think will die?

I think that Melisandre will bite the big one in the next book. I am not sure about Stannis because he's not a bad guy. He's just been misled, but that might be his downfall.

I don't think Jorah Mormont is going to live through the next book.

I really hope they off Zombie Cat once and for all. I really hate that character. She's the reason behind most of the deaths, betrayals, and failure of the Stark side.

I think Littlefinger is going to die, but not the next book. Probably the one after.

Daenarys will die in the last book.


This is my list of people I think will survive the whole series:
Jaime Lannister
Tyrion Lannister
Jon Snow
Sansa Stark
Arya Stark
Brandon Stark
Rickon Stark
Samwell Tarly
Davos Seaworth
Myrcella Baratheon
Brienne

[Qalbert]

Maybe you misunderstood how he got elected as Lord Commander then, it wasn't like all the night's watch was like rah rah he so awesome and such a great leader. Sam manipulated the shit out of people.

[tyven]

HE IS PROB A GOOD LEADER CUZ HIS FATHER WAS A GOOD LEADER AND INSTILLED WONDERFUL VALUES LIKE HONOUR AND JUSTICE. YOU GO AHEAD AND KEEP CHEERING FOR CAT THOUGH YOU STUPID WHORE

[tyven]

BENJIN STARK WILL ALSO SURVIVE

[Rhinox]

I like Daenarys because she goes from being an abused girl to finding the strength to lead a nation. She's never portrayed as being stupid or whiny, just kept under the thumb of Viserys.

you don't find Jon snow convincing yet you find Tina Turner morphing into Margret Thatcher on steroids convincing? to each their own lol

Jon's story was convincing in fact that he always had all the tools (well educated and well trained in combat). Remember its not like all the men wanted Jon Snow to be lord commander nor did he want to be Lord commander. The best he hoped for was First ranger like his uncle. Aside from his friends and the few that were at the castle black during the Siege he wasn't really popular in the Nights Watch. He had to be maneuvered in using deceit.

The only indication we have of Jon growing into the LC role was a few scenes during Sams POV were Sam felt like he changed. We won't know how well Jon will feel about his new role really until this next book.

[Qalbert]

IN SEVENTEEN FUCKIN DAYS

[aduidarnenye]

Remember, though, that Lord Commander Mormont wanted him for his squire as soon as Jon was out of training because, as Samwell pointed out, that's where you get trained for leadership roles. But my problem is that Jon was an asshat to his fellow trainees from the beginning and only switched gears because he hated Ser Alliser Thorne. The only leadership he showed was giving a few fighting tips to the other boys, but anyone with a similar background could have done the same, therefore his leadership capabilities come solely from his birth and upbringing in Winterfell. Seems like the Night's Watch would put less emphasis on birth than other Westeros organisations.

On top of that, I just find Jon to be super whiny about his lot in life for most of his POVs. Daenarys was never whiny, she always accepted her lot and did her best.

[Qalbert]

And there's no way he could have just recognized that hey, this kid has potential.

[Qalbert]

Haters gonna hate.

[EternityEnd]

There's also no way he saw that Jon was the only recruit with both a general and martial education.

[Zeb]

I don't like Dany cuz she has the same attitude as Stannis "The throne is mine by right, blah blah." With little thought on how to rule and if she's even capable of it until halfway into book 3. I mean seriously, she never even asked why her father was usurped until she's like 16? Sounds like a stupid insipid bitch to me. Jon's POV resonates with me more with the chip on his shoulder because Catelyn was a bitch. And then he realizes he's got a family in the Night's Watch, right before he gets Lord Commandered by Sam.

[aduidarnenye]

He recognised the potential even though Jon did nothing but behave like a spoiled whiny jerk for the the first half of his training?

I don't like Dany cuz she has the same attitude as Stannis "The throne is mine by right, blah blah." With little thought on how to rule and if she's even capable of it until halfway into book 3. I mean seriously, she never even asked why her father was usurped until she's like 16? Sounds like a stupid insipid bitch to me. Jon's POV resonates with me more with the chip on his shoulder because Catelyn was a bitch. And then he realizes he's got a family in the Night's Watch, right before he gets Lord Commandered by Sam.

Actually, Dany doesn't start going nuts slowly until after the first assassination attempt. She's definitely a total nutcase psychopath. I think she's supposed to be the "evil side" of the story when she attacks Westeros, Martin is just showing her background.

[Qalbert]

We're talking about A Song of Ice and Fire by George R. R. Martin. I'm not sure what you've been reading.

[aduidarnenye]

You don't think Daenarys is a nutcase? As soon as the first assassination attempt happened she started going on about the Usurper's knives being a step behind her, her entire life, even though we know that it was a new thing. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing for her. A bit of mad genius never hurt a leader.

[EternityEnd]

I don't think you've been paying enough attention to the story.

Daenerys was constantly instilled with tales of the usurper's assassins being one step behind them by Viserys. He was the crazy one. Daenerys has always been quite sane, if nothing else. How you can think she's a "nutcase" is really beyond me. With this quote:

"The Targaryens have always danced too close to madness. King Jaehaerys once told me that madness and greatness are two sides of the same coin. Every time a Targaryen is born, the gods toss a coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land."

Martin goes out of his way to inform the reader that Viserys was the insane one, favoring Aerys, while Daenerys was the one bound for greatness, like Rhaegar.

[aduidarnenye]

Daenarys never truly believed Viserys when he told her those tales. She couldn't remember ever seeing/experiencing the knives growing up. She always thought of home as the little house with the red door, not Westeros. It wasn't until the assassination attempt that she started believing that Viserys had been right all the time and she started thinking of Westeros as home and hers to take. After that she started thinking about the Usurpers knives constantly and started thinking about going home to Westeros, not the little house with the red door.

Viserys was insane, but he was also very stupid, which Daenarys points out. I don't believe Daenarys is stupid and I don't believe she's crazy to Viserys level, but she's definitely not a stable person. She even starts talking about waking the dragon in book three when she gets angry at people.

Rhaegar may have been meant for greatness, but he did some weird stuff too. Barristan told Daenarys that he was a weird child who wasn't interested in anything but books until one day he went down to the training yard saying that it seemed he must become a warrior. Also, he stole Lyanna and started a war. Finally, even if he was meant for greatness, he still died.

[tyven]

i still dont get your issue with jon snow

Kid who spent his whole life raised by Lord of the North + a bomb ass maester with an uncle as first ranger vs a random collection of criminals. who the F else is he gonna groom?