A Song of Ice and Fire (Book discussion)

[Rhinox]

about half way I think?

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was not expecting Theon to turn into gollum...

[Andalusian girls]

Theon was my favorite, with Connington a close second as he was one of the few characters to do anything

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man is the psychology behind Theon's earlier actions laid bare when he starts to reminisce on the cruelty of his initial family and the 'we're going to kill you if your father ever does anything wrong' nature of his ward family.
epic :[ when he starts on about how he should have been with Robb at the Red Wedding and he should have died with Robb.
Seems like Theon is being set up for some redemption, he does save Jeyne (that line about the dog X_X) and juxtaposed with that motherfucking Ramsay comes across as sympathetic

And normally I love Dany but holy God that was nearly a dozen chapters where absolutely nothing happens, ditto with Tyrion

[Zeb]

So how many more years do you think the books are going to cover? You get the impression that this is going to be a record size winter, but you know GRRM could have the winter end as soon as the Others get defeated. On the other hand Sam still needs to forge his maester's chain, Arya finish her training, and armies move from the east to the west while they do some conquering.

[noblemountain]

He said before that he wanted to have a five year break after the third book...he just couldn't find a spot to do it. He initially wanted each book to be a year or so but everything that was happening wouldn't make sense for someone to wait a month to do something, it was all reactionary. He may put everyone in a holding pattern sometime in the next book or he may just abandon the idea. I don't think you really need to pause much, Sam needs a year or so to forge his chain...maybe have everyone arrive that isn't already in Westeros by the end of next book and have it take almost a year to happen...that would be sufficient I think.

[Penthesilea]

About 30% of the way through, thoroughly enjoying it. Been reading at work, having been done for an hr now and just couldn't put it down.

Edit: for spoiler

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So 3 heads to the dragon... Jon Snow, Aegon, and Dany? No need to ruin it, just my thoughts on it so far (Tyrion just got picked up after the stone men/drowning incident).

[FailureMidgard]

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Oh, it's also interesting that Dany is no longer barren, as Mirri's prophecy was fulfilled.

Quentyn Martell, the sun, came from the west and died in the east; the Dothraki sea has gone dry; Rhaegal and Viserion destroyed the pyramid, and its ashes blow in the wind.

The prophecy of Azor Ahai was also fulfilled in the last Jon chapter, when Jon was killed (and we can infer, reborn) underneath Wun Wun's dead knight, whose sigil was a field of blue stars, with Bowen Marsh crying and his (Jon's) wounds steaming.

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I think you're missing a part of that...if we see it as prophecy, it is beginning to be fulfilled, the entire prophecy is:
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."
He being Drogo. If we take that as a prophecy, everything is a condition for Drogo being returned to her, which implies either another character rising from the dead, or Dany not making it through her encounter with Jhaqo and rather joining Drogo in the nightlands, or perhaps she just has a kid who she names Drogo or something, but either way, it's missing the "point" of the statement I think?

[EternityEnd]

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I think you're missing a part of that...if we see it as prophecy, it is beginning to be fulfilled, the entire prophecy is:
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."
He being Drogo. If we take that as a prophecy, everything is a condition for Drogo being returned to her, which implies either another character rising from the dead, or Dany not making it through her encounter with Jhaqo and rather joining Drogo in the nightlands, or perhaps she just has a kid who she names Drogo or something, but either way, it's missing the "point" of the statement I think?

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Not necessarily. The part about her no longer being barren has been fulfilled; she had a miscarriage in her last chapter. If the baby was Drogo, he's dead. If the prophecy means that her soulless Drogo would become the real Drogo, then Dany already prevented that from happening when she smothered him. Either way, I don't see Drogo coming back.

[FailureMidgard]

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Not necessarily. The part about her no longer being barren has been fulfilled; she had a miscarriage in her last chapter. If the baby was Drogo, he's dead. If the prophecy means that her soulless Drogo would become the real Drogo, then Dany already prevented that from happening when she smothered him. Either way, I don't see Drogo coming back.

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I thought a miscarriage is essentially the embryo (not even a fetus yet?) dying inside the womb, not really "bearing a living child". Regardless though, my point was the fetus, the mountain, the sea, the sun were all conditions being given...for when Drogo would return. It wasn't saying, when these things happen, you will be fertile again. It was saying when these things happen (including fertility) you will get Drogo back.

[Talus]

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She didn't have a miscarriage, she had her period.

[EternityEnd]

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No, she had missed several subsequent periods, and she bled much more than normal, indicating a miscarriage.

[aduidarnenye]

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No, she had missed several subsequent periods, and she bled much more than normal, indicating a miscarriage.

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If you are skipping periods for some reason or another you'll often start out with a doozy, bleeding like a stuck pig when you start up again. This can happen when you use hormonal birth control. Of course, I don't know if Martin would know that or not, being a 60+ year old man but you never know.

[tyven]

YO WHERE THE FUCK WAS HOWLAND REED GOD FUCKING BULLSHIT

hoping for a wun wun pov in the next book. that nigga a boss

[Rhinox]

YO WHERE THE FUCK WAS HOWLAND REED GOD FUCKING BULLSHIT

hoping for a wun wun pov in the next book. that nigga a boss

YOUR WORD TO GODS EARS
REAL TALK

[Tyche]

With the wife on vacation, I had little off time to read. Finally finished...

Just went through all the spoiler talk, so here's some thoughts.

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I don't think Dany is capable of having a child, especially if you look at it the bleeding as a miscarriage. If she was having a period, she was never really barren. She'll just continue to miscarry children, unable to carry full term

Jon's last chapter was my favorite chapter of the series. The letter sent by Bolton was fucking epic

Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.

Your false king’s friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.

I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

I want my bride back. I want the false king’s queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess.

I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard’s heart and eat it.

Ramsay Bolton,
Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

I was ready for a bastard v bastard showdown for Winterfell. I was getting fucking pumped reading that chapter, then...Martin'd. Don't see him as dead either though, too much going on on the Wall for him to simply die or become a beast.

Who were the children at the end with Vary's? Leading up to that final scene, I kept thinking that somehow Arya was involved, because they kept referencing random children throughout the epilouge. Edit: I guess they're his little spies after going back and rereading the scene. They're pale and dark eyes, which means they spend a lot of time in dark places, the castle tunnels and walls.

Also, something I just thought about, if Bolton really killed stannis and his men, that means he killed the banker. The Iron Bank is going to wreck Bolton's shit if they find out. Going to have to read this again, there's a lot I missed. I didn't catch the Frey Pie's at first. I knew something was awry, but just dismissed it I guess.

[friedfunk]

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I don't think Ramsay sent that letter. I think it's a forgery by Mance Rayder.

There's liberal use of 'bastard' as an insult, and Ramsay despises the word.

I believe 'crows' is wildling slang for the night's watch. Also wtf would Ramsay ask for Val and the kid?

[Tyche]

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It'll be an interesting plot device if that's the case, but I can't see Mance writing it for two reasons. 1. The use of the word bastard. The free folk don't really look at people as high born or low bord, so using the word "Bastard" sort of opposes the views of Mance. 2. He twice asks for Arya, twice, obviously emphasizing that he wants her. Mance knows he could provoke Jon by telling him to come and get Arya, not by telling him that she got away. I'm pretty certain of the fact that Jon is going to march south and lay waste to Roose, but if he has a wildling army at his back only to find Mance, it will be one hell of a story.

Regarding the prophecies/Dragons. Rhaegal is the mummer, I think that's apparent. The three riders are going to be Jon, Dany, and...Bran. Well, I don't know if Bran will actually ride it, but he's going to be controlling one. On another prophecy, has all of dany's betrayals come to fruition? I think some of the deceptions that she alludes to are, for lack of a better word, mummer deceptions, and don't fulfill that particular prophecy

[tyven]

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I don't think Ramsay sent that letter. I think it's a forgery by Mance Rayder.

There's liberal use of 'bastard' as an insult, and Ramsay despises the word.

I believe 'crows' is wildling slang for the night's watch. Also wtf would Ramsay ask for Val and the kid?

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this crossed my mind as well and i hope to fuck its true. mance is way too bad ass to be in a cage above winterfell at the hand of ramsay.

[EternityEnd]

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Rhaegal as the Mummer's Dragon? What? That doesn't make any sense. The Mummer's Dragon is probably "Aegon," either because he isn't really Aegon Targaryen or because he's Illyrio/Varys' dragon.

[Tyche]

That's what I meant :/ NFC why I typed that.

[Rhinox]

Just finished

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if mance is involved than so is melisandre. He pretty much bends to her will. It's possible she made mance send the letter to keep Jon from going to save the wildlings

Jon isn't dead their is a reason why six skins had a prologue. It was to establish that shifters can occupy people as well animals and that the death of the shifters body isn't the Death of the shifter.

I hope Jon slips into wun wun and goes all kill bill before he goes into ghost. Btw I lol@ the Jon death scene only because it so American me/blood in blood out. If you seen both those movies you now what I'm talking about.

I fucking love penny. I just want to hug her and keep her safe she is so adorable which scares me cause she's exactly the type of character GRRM loves to kill that heartless bastard my heart sank when tyrion implied penny was sick I thought GRRM was gonna kill her right there. Glad I was wrong.

I'm starting to love cerci. She's so well written.

Yay brienne! Wonder if she died and got the kiss or she was spared last minute. Hopefully podrick is ok too!

arya storyline can go so many ways. Can't wait to see more