A Song of Ice and Fire (Book discussion)

[BaneTheBrawler]

it's actually both. the bedding is a real ritual from history; the guests would often camp outside the bedroom to hear the deed being done, and then the couple would need to show the bloody sheets to prove it was done. otherwise people could question whether it was a legit marriage, since consummation was an integral part of the whole process.


which is why tywin rides tyrion so hard about not fucking sansa. no consummation = null marriage, null marriage = no claim to winterfell. no heir, no ability to keep winterfell even after its been claimed. so when tywin talks about tyrion shirking his duty, he's referring to the fact that as a lord's son, it is literally his job to put babies in the belly of the noble wife chosen for him. his only job, as a second son.

[Plow]

aye, and it's implied here and there that the public parts of the ceremony can get pretty... hands on

and then, before Tywin shuts it down, Joffrey seems pretty excited about what he's going to get to do to Sansa, even though he's threatening to come back and rape her later


who knows for sure what the "liberties" aerys is said to have taken actually were, I think it's intended to have actually been very little, but to mislead us into thinking it may have lead to cersei and jaime

[Andalusian girls]

stripping a chick naked while carrying her up the stairs is the bedding ritual, copping a gratuitous feel here and there sure, but actually plowing a broad and dropping that seed ? beggars belief

also as all the Lannister and royal nobility would have been there hard to imagine Tyrion never hearing about how that one time Aerys fucked his hand's wife. i agree it serves primarily as misdirection to support Tyrion joining Jon + Dany as the third dragon head

[Andalusian girls]

The dragon has three heads. Dany, Aegon, what seems to be the most plausible Jon.

to go back here it does ask who the third head is if not Tyrion. i think Aegon is definitely Impostergon, the Anastasia story is questionable in and of itself + Dany's vision in The House of the Undying seems to solidify the notion "A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd." dragons are fire, not cloth, and Dany is a slayer of lies.

[Ohemgee]

I think thats a misunderstanding for a war banner.

Which of course can mean A LOT of things:

1. Dany goes to war raising her banners
2. Any Targaryen conquering and returning home to a city, battlefield, etc.
3. This was all a dream and a huge intro to Laketown a la Hobbit and Smaug

Edit: Though it can also mean that Aegon is a great pretender, why would Varys go out of his way to do all of the shit he's done for the last 20 years?

[Abandon]

the bedding used to go much further than that; usually the ruling king would also have his way with the bride as well. that practice was discontinued in most places; in fact, when Ned married he told them if they touched Cat he'd either maim or kill them, i forget which.

[Plow]

can't remember from the book but in the show cat tells... roose? I think it was, that ned disallowed it saying it wouldn't be right if he broke a man's jaw on their wedding night

[Abandon]

I think it WAS roose, and it was at the Red Wedding. Either him or Rob.

[BaneTheBrawler]

stripping a chick naked while carrying her up the stairs is the bedding ritual, copping a gratuitous feel here and there sure, but actually plowing a broad and dropping that seed ? beggars belief

also as all the Lannister and royal nobility would have been there hard to imagine Tyrion never hearing about how that one time Aerys fucked his hand's wife. i agree it serves primarily as misdirection to support Tyrion joining Jon + Dany as the third dragon head

you're talking about a man who came to be known as "The Mad King," and a man who had his stepmother paraded through the streets naked, respectively. i dont think either of them would have an issue overcoming the obstacles you raise.


and yeah cat definitely said something along those lines, but the "breaking the jaw" was from the show, i think it was phrased differently in the book. same idea though.

[Stilzkin]

why would Varys go out of his way to do all of the shit he's done for the last 20 years?

Ever heard of the Varys Blackfyre theories?

[Nuketwig]

Ned and Cat not having a bedding was a show only thing.

[BaneTheBrawler]

oh shit you know what youre right! damn i feel like a fool now, doesnt she have some inner monologue about how her bedding was actually comforting because her family was all there or some shit?



i knew the broken jaw thing was show only but yeah


fuck i really need to re-read the books soon. i hate messing up details like that.

[Plow]

Ever heard of the Varys Blackfyre theories?

there's way crazier theories than that

retarded valyrian steel theory:

Spoiler: show

Lannisters aren't allowed to have valyrian steel weapons. Thus Ice is given to Payne rather than immediately sent to Tywin to wield himself, and then, clearly, Jaime, and therefore Joffrey, aren't Lannisters so they can own them.


Meanwhile, every Stark in the current story will own a Valyrian Steel weapon... then die.

Ned...

Technically Rob owned Ice, til he died.

Cat owns oathkeeper while she owns brienne... she's already dead lol... but probably about to release brienne... and then die again.

Which puts oathkeeper back on the path to Sansa.

Bran is about to inherit bloodraven's position, and presumably Dark Sister along with it.

Jon... yeah.


Which leaves Arya and Rickon as the only ones that aren't clearly headed to or already are owning valyrian steel.

Arya will end up with one, and then of course she'll die.


Rickon will be left, and with the full power of the true Northmen, who would never forget the thousands of years the Starks have taken care of them, will recover the north and become lord of Winterfell...

and the final epilogue will be an "unexciting" short scene of Rickon receiving the blades made from Ice...

^theory is dumb but the prospect of bran wielding hodor wielding dark sister makes it worth it imo




the Southron ambitions theory is pretty cool too, I'll just link straight to the main writeup on it:

http://towerofthehand.com/blog/2012/...ons/index.html


tl:dr, robert's rebellion isn't that well justified, and all this shit of marrying the major families across to each other is actually exceedingly rare, even in this story; it only really happens to secure an alliance for a specific purpose...

which implies that Lord Rickon, Jon Arryn, Tywin, Hoster Tully, and Steffon Baratheon were actually all working together for something very major; which was then blown to shit by Jaime being named Kingsguard, Rickon and Brandon getting found out and killed, and Steffon having died randomly along the way

also explains why tyrell/martell never turned to the rebel side, since they weren't included in the apparent plan to unify the entire north, west, east, and riverlands

[Plow]

also, everyone always assumes that dany is the first head of the dragon without a doubt...

but it's actually shown that if a dragon's rider dies, it may then be possible for another rider to take it up


and the fact that she walked through the wall in the show's prophecy to find... drogo and rhaego waiting for her, refusing to enter the night lands without her...

[BaneTheBrawler]

the bit about bran, hodor, and Dark Sister is probably coming anyway. He's been building up to it since the tower in the lake. The only problem I see is that during Varamyr's chapters it's made plain that to the Wargs, skinchanging into a human is the ultimate abomination, so Bloodraven might object. But Hodor and Bran are special, so maybe not. They complete each other in a bizarre way.

[Plow]

the tower in the lake

I prefer The Tower of the Hodoring

since it's not on a lake in the show and, you know, way better anyway

[Ohemgee]

So many theories. It is known.


But really George, you need to step the fuck up and put out bro

[tyven]

well we got two chapters in the last month, right? How long did we get the release date before Dance with Dragons? That finally came out summer 11 right? I think we have to get Winds by summer 15 right? RIGHT?

[Qalbert]

i still think we'll see Doors of Stone before Winds of Winter

[Qalbert]

in 2019