A Song of Ice and Fire (Book discussion)

[Eurell]

He could have just walked away without striking a killing blow if he wanted the mountain to suffer slower. There is 0 reason he had to die, and 0 reason to believe he died on purpose. And if really did want to die on purpose, holy fuck, just get sliced in half after you stab the mountain the first time. Have a nice instant death instead of getting your head crunched in.

[Plow]

He could have just walked away without striking a killing blow if he wanted the mountain to suffer slower.

That doesn't work in trial by combat. It's not like Littlefinger's duel where he can just be let off because someone's begging him to, that shit is to the death, period. Somebody has to die on the spot.

There is 0 reason he had to die, and 0 reason to believe he died on purpose.

I just gave you reason to believe it, disagreeing and not believing doesn't mean the reason doesn't exist.

And if really did want to die on purpose, holy fuck, just get sliced in half after you stab the mountain the first time. Have a nice instant death instead of getting your head crunched in.

You think getting sliced in half is less painful, and a faster death, than suffering for a few seconds as your brain is destroyed?

[noblemountain]

Plow, if you honestly think the Viper got himself killed on purpose than I am putting you back on block forever. That shit is beyond Mazmaz levels of retarded. I can't possibly believe that you actually think that in your heart of hearts. You can't possibly be that dumb.

[Amiricle]

Not at all, that's the way I look at it

Every character/force is a threat to someone else based on what their ambitions are and it's constantly changing.

This is very true. As an example, no one has called Jaime Lannister a villain, but if this question had been posed in season 1, he'd likely have topped the list for TV only people.

[Tyrath]

Plow, if you honestly think the Viper got himself killed on purpose than I am putting you back on block forever. That shit is beyond Mazmaz levels of retarded. I can't possibly believe that you actually think that in your heart of hearts. You can't possibly be that dumb.

This.

[Rhyis.]

Oh Plow

[Plow]

Plow, if you honestly think the Viper got himself killed on purpose than I am putting you back on block forever. That shit is beyond Mazmaz levels of retarded. I can't possibly believe that you actually think that in your heart of hearts. You can't possibly be that dumb.

I would absolutely love it if you blocked me. You don't actually read my posts, you just find some shit to get offended by and flip out on it.

not saying that's definitely what happened, but it's plenty strong a possibility

hi


sorry, but I'm a big fucking nerd when it comes to this shit, and spend way too much time reading discussions and shit, so I'm aware of a ton of theories both completely realistic and really far-fetched; this is simply one of those that I thought was worth mentioning in this context


just out of curiosity, why else would he have poisoned Tywin ahead of time? Did he ever do anything whatsoever to imply he had even the tiniest miniscule thought that there was any way in hell Gregor could actually legitimately kill him without him allowing it to happen?

No? Then why hedge his bets? That's not his style at all. If he just wanted the mountain to die, he certainly doesn't need to enter single combat with him to make it happen.

You see, whether it's accurate or not, the theories that actually gain some footing in an audience this large tend to be pretty well founded.


The fact of the matter is that if it was someone other than me that made the exact same posts with the exact same words, and it didn't say "Plow" in the upper left, you guys would just be like "oh that's an interesting theory, never thought of it like that," even if you still completely didn't believe it.

[noblemountain]

No, honestly I think you're generally a smart guy who says dumb shit on the internet 'cause you like to argue. Not sure if it's the attention or what, but it's old and annoying.

[Plow]

I actually don't disagree that I am that way sometimes (it's not necessarily "attention" I'm after per se; just discussion, which requires the occasional devil's advocacy in such a 1 sided environment as this), but people think I'm being that way any time they disagree. It's incredibly frustrating.

[Abandon]

holy plow, wut

[Eurell]

I would absolutely love it if you blocked me. You don't actually read my posts, you just find some shit to get offended by and flip out on it.




hi


sorry, but I'm a big fucking nerd when it comes to this shit, and spend way too much time reading discussions and shit, so I'm aware of a ton of theories both completely realistic and really far-fetched; this is simply one of those that I thought was worth mentioning in this context


just out of curiosity, why else would he have poisoned Tywin ahead of time? Did he ever do anything whatsoever to imply he had even the tiniest miniscule thought that there was any way in hell Gregor could actually legitimately kill him without him allowing it to happen?

No? Then why hedge his bets? That's not his style at all. If he just wanted the mountain to die, he certainly doesn't need to enter single combat with him to make it happen.

You see, whether it's accurate or not, the theories that actually gain some footing in an audience this large tend to be pretty well founded.


The fact of the matter is that if it was someone other than me that made the exact same posts with the exact same words, and it didn't say "Plow" in the upper left, you guys would just be like "oh that's an interesting theory, never thought of it like that," even if you still completely didn't believe it.

He has been planning payback with his brother for over a decade. If you think he decided to get himself killed on purpose on a fucking whim, just so the mountain would suffer a little bit more (even though there was no reason to believe they would make Pycelle keep him alive that long) then Idk what to say.

And as far as the "rules" of trial by combat. What would have stopped him from just sitting down on the other side of the arena while the mountain lay there bleeding out and suffering from the poison? If making the mountain was his only goal at all, go hack off a foot or something before you get yourself killed. Nothing about this adds up.

Also, wasn't he about to swing gregor's own great sword at him moments before he died? He thought he had won. The poisoon would have killed anyone else. But the Mountain is a freak and didn't die when any other man would have. Theres no planning that.

And, in case you didn't notice, this is a video game sub forum. 90% of us are obsessive nerds that spend too much time reading theories about shit we like lol. I'm sure most of us saw this theory and thought it was shit on reddit or westeros.org or w/e too, just like 90% of the people on those sites did lol. It has nothing to do with your name. Ffs we all just had arguements in two threads because we disagreed on who/what a villian is in this series. But I wont deny that after reading a theory like that, people will then notice your name and go, "of course, I should have realized"


edit:

just out of curiosity, why else would he have poisoned Tywin ahead of time? Did he ever do anything whatsoever to imply he had even the tiniest miniscule thought that there was any way in hell Gregor could actually legitimately kill him without him allowing it to happen?.

Yeah. He's the fucking mountain lol. You have to be retarded to think there is 0 chance for the mountain to kill you in battle.

Doesn't Barristan give a whole speech about how anyone could win a battle against anyone on any given day? It just takes 1 tiny factor to fuck someone up, a wet spot on the ground, the sun in their eyes, and then anything can happen.

So for one of the best fighters of the series to be 100% certain of victory against the fucking mountain is just goddamn pants on head retarded.

[Eurell]

speaking of pants on head retarded


double

[Plow]

He has been planning payback with his brother for over a decade. If you think he decided to get himself killed on purpose on a fucking whim, just so the mountain would suffer a little bit more (even though there was no reason to believe they would make Pycelle keep him alive that long) then Idk what to say.

Doran, thus far, refuses to go to war.

Oberyn REALLY wants him to.

Having Oberyn killed by Gregor, after getting Gregor to admit that he did it, at Tywin's behest, would be one hell of a step in that direction.

So for one of the best fighters of the series to be 100% certain of victory against the fucking mountain is just goddamn pants on head retarded.

almost as retarded as standing over him talking shit when he's not dead yet...

[BadKarma]

Doran, thus far, refuses to go to war.

Oberyn REALLY wants him to.

Having Oberyn killed by Gregor, after getting Gregor to admit that he did it, at Tywin's behest, would be one hell of a step in that direction.




almost as retarded as standing over him talking shit when he's not dead yet...

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh have you read ADWD

[Plow]

2 books after the shit we're talking about...

[Eurell]

2 books after the shit we're talking about...

But its a plan over a decade in the making. But hey, Fuck going to war with dragons on our side, I'll just get my head crushed in on purpose for the lols

Oberyn and Doran have been planning things together, there is no reason to believe Oberyn didn't want to follow the plan.

almost as retarded as standing over him talking shit when he's not dead yet...

Didn't Oberyn do that while getting ready to kill Gregor with his own Greatsword in the books?

[Plow]

But its a plan over a decade in the making. But hey, Fuck going to war with dragons on our side, I'll just get my head crushed in on purpose for the lols

Oberyn and Doran have been planning things together, there is no reason to believe Oberyn didn't want to follow the plan.

Oberyn isn't completely informed; see "hey are you cool?" show convo with Varys, who is extremely clearly Doran's contact in the books.

That conversation (and especially the face Oberyn makes at the end) literally makes 0 sense whatsoever if Oberyn really knows exactly what's going on.

It can pretty much only logically be him trying to figure it out.

Didn't Oberyn do that while getting ready to kill Gregor with his own Greatsword in the books?

from tyrion's perspective it's something like "we'll never know if he meant to put it to his throat or through his eye slot"


but, uh, I don't get the impression that he was about to end the fight without hearing a confession

[Eurell]

Show only scenes are not actually proof of anything lol. And even if it was, not having 100% knowledge does not make him suicidal.

But obviously there's no reason to keep arguing. So you can go on thinking Oberyn wanted to die so that maybe (just fucking maybe) Tywin would order Pycelle to keep Gregor alive as long as possible to make him suffer. And the rest of us can go on thinking he was just too blinded by his vengeance to notice he fucked up in a fight with one of the most dangerous men in the world.

[Stilzkin]

Oberyn isn't completely informed; see "hey are you cool?" show convo with Varys, who is extremely clearly Doran's contact in the books.

That conversation (and especially the face Oberyn makes at the end) literally makes 0 sense whatsoever if Oberyn really knows exactly what's going on.

It can pretty much only logically be him trying to figure it out.

Oberyn knows that Doran was thinking of joining up with the remaining Targaryens. It was Oberyn who made the marriage contract between Viserys and Arianne.

We don't know if Doran and Varys are working together. We know Doran has spies in KL but that doesn't narrow it down to Varys. Varys' and Doran's goals have contradicted other for most of the series. Varys intended for Viserys to die, while Doran planned to give him the throne, and Varys had Aegon hidden away, who is preferable king for Doran.

[BaneTheBrawler]

Doran, thus far, refuses to go to war.

Oberyn REALLY wants him to.

oberyn was in on doran's plans and approved of them; the shit in king's landing was just gravy.