A Song of Ice and Fire (Book discussion)

[Tyche]

God, book two is great. I'll take 5 chapters of battles for 3 pages of Tyrion fucking people over.

[aduidarnenye]

Catelyn is widely regarded as a stupid bitch because she makes mistakes for love while the males around her are regarded as great men because they make mistakes for honor, but I don't see how her mistakes are any greater or more frequent than Robb's or Ned's.

I know this is an old quote, from a previous page, but it has stuck in my mind. I think, after much contemplation about it, that no one believes Catelyn's mistakes to be greater than Ned's or Robb's. The problem isn't why she makes mistakes but that despite her very obvious and dangerous political errors that cause much death and destruction all of the other characters around her believe her to be a political genius. None of the characters believe Ned or Robb to be political geniuses, or even war geniuses. In fact, several people in King's Landing called Ned out on his stupidity multiple times. Catelyn is simply a very poorly written character.

Personally, I really think that Sansa and Cersei are much better written. Sansa especially because she is obviously a lot smarter than what people around her and herself give her credit for. She slowly comes into that and her character grows a lot over the course of the series.

[Andalusian girls]

When is she ever regarded as a political genius ?

[aduidarnenye]

When is she ever regarded as a political genius ?

I remember a scene or two with her and Robb's bannermen talking about the war against the Lannisters and Robb's uncle urging Robb to listen to Catelyn. Also, the maester at the beginning of the first novel, when they receive Lysa's note about Jon Arryn implies that Catelyn has this great political instinct. It's mentioned a few times.

[Bweigelt]

I remember a scene or two with her and Robb's bannermen talking about the war against the Lannisters and Robb's uncle urging Robb to listen to Catelyn. Also, the maester at the beginning of the first novel, when they receive Lysa's note about Jon Arryn implies that Catelyn has this great political instinct. It's mentioned a few times.

I don't know where you are getting this from. Catelyn herself actually mentions several times throughout the series that most of the people around her just see her as the grieving Widow/Mother and don't take her seriously. I've been rereading the series for the third time and have just finished ACOK and no where in the first two novels is it suggested she's some political genius, or that she has a particularly good political acumen.

[Qalbert]

have just finished ACOK

heh heh

[Tyche]

I'm about 1/4 through ACOK. I just want to skip to Tyrion parts.

[aduidarnenye]

I don't know where you are getting this from. Catelyn herself actually mentions several times throughout the series that most of the people around her just see her as the grieving Widow/Mother and don't take her seriously. I've been rereading the series for the third time and have just finished ACOK and no where in the first two novels is it suggested she's some political genius, or that she has a particularly good political acumen.

I'm doing a re-read of the series now, I'll make a note of what I remember when I come to the parts about Catelyn.

[Qalbert]

I've had this in a dedicated tab for a few days now, oh man

[Tyche]

I just read the Theon chapter where he met Asha for the first time. It's awkward to blurt out laughing so hard after reading quietly for so long. I think I had to break reading for a minute to catch my breath.

[Qalbert]

haha yeah, oh man

[noblemountain]

I just finished book 2. I was reading on my kindle...so I wasn't paying attention to how much was left and was kinda surprised by the ending. I thought I would get more with Tyrion after his injury at least. I will say I was shocked to see Winterfell burn...never once thought the boys were dead though. I hope Theon burned with Winterfell, but I'm sure he's just a prisoner. I just downloaded book 3 and will start that today. I am devouring these books fast...spent 3 hours reading last and completely skipped practicing with my bow...do you know how good something has to be to make a mongolian skip his archery practice?? lol

[Talus]

Yeah the Theon/Asha bit... I laughed my ass off, I'm talking hyena laugh that didn't stop for a good minute.

[Vandalhart]

I got the books last night on my iPad, so I will start reading the first of 4 soon. I may wait until after the first season of Game of Thrones as my understanding is the first book is the first season of the show.

[Drunkenmonk]

about halfway through ASOS, this might be my favorite so far, possibly the best book ever written

[Rhinox]

About a quarter of the way done with book 2. Quick question

What's a craven? I hear used interchangeably with coward all the time and a few times in the same sentence. Is it GRRM version of "fag" or pansy?

[Man0warr]

Basically.

[noblemountain]

About a quarter of the way done with book 2. Quick question

What's a craven? I hear used interchangeably with coward all the time and a few times in the same sentence. Is it GRRM version of "fag" or pansy?

craven is just an old english word for coward. the latin form means to break, so they used it when people ran in battle.

[aduidarnenye]

During my re-read I've noticed that someplace it states that Lord Commander Mormont took the black because of his son's crime but also it says that a few of the knights in the Night's Watch were the last proper fighting knights to join under Mormont's rule and they joined because they had supported King Aerys during Robert's rebellion. So how long has Mormont been lord commander and why did he join?


Also,

If Ned had listened to even just one of the many people who warned him and tried to help him, how would the story have turned out? Ned seemed awfully intent on war being the only honourable option.

[tyven]

I thought Mormont took the black so that Jorah could take over as lord of Bear Island and that he committed the crime after