Patch 1.17 Notes (04/14/2011)

[Hyan]

You heard what the man said Corrderio. Stop enjoying it right this second.

[Cureslime]

The biggest moneymakers in the game are mining and fishing and still very few people do them. Gets old by the time you hit rank 20 and unbearable by the time you hit rank 30.

[Corrderio]

Would you actually play it if you werent leveling something?

Considering I took Botany up solely so I wouldn't have to buy all my logs, probably.

[miokomioko]

That's completely wrong. A large majority is avoiding gathering class like plague it's a fucking torture (so is selling stuff in market ward).
Yes, a minority of insane masochist (ie: you and Hyan) might actually enjoy it, but the rest of us would rather not waste any time on trivial mechanics that only slow the game.

Missing the Point
By Kaylia

(bolded the part where you're completely wrong)

Before you start getting all retarded and pointing fingers based on your stupid assumptions of whether or not I actually enjoy the "mini-games," understand that I was actually saying they suck for skilling/grinding/etc. (my 33 fisher is well aware). Once you get to a point where your gathering/crafting classes become of use besides just a number in your skills menu, (you know, actually gathering items for crafting, and possibly crafting something you're going to use) the "mini-games" will supply versatility and purpose to your gathering/crafting that you're going to wish you had if they ever did away with them.

I still find it mind-boggling ridiculous that people prefer the concept of click a "craft" or "mine/fish/log" button and simply cross their fingers to HQ their Adaberks, NQ their Peace Capes, dig up Luminium Ore, or hook a Gugrusaurus instead of having any sort of control over the process, as long as it means THE THING HAPPEN FASTER.

Obviously the "mini-games" do have issues that could be tweaked into being less cumbersome for pure grinding from low-ranks into the mid-ranks, but I'd be pretty disappointed if they did away with them entirely because people would rather just close their eyes roll some dice every time they gather/craft.

[Cichy]

Once again both botany and mining miss the rarity of items that FFXI had, I wish there would be some "insert name" ore or logs, that would be top tier rare items and make rare equipment. Tanaka was so afraid that casuals would get fucked out of something that he made both jobs trivial and unrewarding imo.

edit,
I agree with Miokomioko, as much as crafting maybe annoying in this game it actually feels like I have control over the final product. I wish the repairs would go away and that there would be "repeat last" tab on the 1st screen you just gotta click once to immediately repeat last synth but that's about it. I think the crafting system other than that is amazing when it comes to production of goods. The problems I'm having derive from the fact that gear is worthless, HQ has shitty stats, etc.
I crafted in Aion and FFXI and dice roll HQ is fuckin retarded and you're retarded if you think its cool.

[Hyan]

I'm not so sure about that, I think it's simply neglect of both the current economy and creating new stuff to gather(and craft) over-time. I kinda feel that they're not going to do much about that until the socketing system is added in.

I agree that I don't(didn't) get the sense of affecting the economy or obtaining something 'valuable'. Everything is just an item that I dug up. It's not as interesting when I don't know what each item's function and value on the market is. That's an important part of playing a gatherer imo. Also, to what end do you gather? I always saw it as a way to get rich, and I kinda like that kind of a goal, but being rich is completely irrelevant right now.

Also since it's a class they need to flesh it out over-time as well, with maybe new activities or even concepts. Surely less than combat and crafting but it would keep things fresh longer.

If it meant something to be rich in this game, gathering would become much more appealing imo.

[Kaylia]

Missing the Point
By Kaylia

(bolded the part where you're completely wrong)

Before you start getting all retarded and pointing fingers based on your stupid assumptions of whether or not I actually enjoy the "mini-games," understand that I was actually saying they suck for skilling/grinding/etc. (my 33 fisher is well aware). Once you get to a point where your gathering/crafting classes become of use besides just a number in your skills menu, (you know, actually gathering items for crafting, and possibly crafting something you're going to use) the "mini-games" will supply versatility and purpose to your gathering/crafting that you're going to wish you had if they ever did away with them.

I still find it mind-boggling ridiculous that people prefer the concept of click a "craft" or "mine/fish/log" button and simply cross their fingers to HQ their Adaberks, NQ their Peace Capes, dig up Luminium Ore, or hook a Gugrusaurus instead of having any sort of control over the process, as long as it means THE THING HAPPEN FASTER.

Obviously the "mini-games" do have issues that could be tweaked into being less cumbersome for pure grinding from low-ranks into the mid-ranks, but I'd be pretty disappointed if they did away with them entirely because people would rather just close their eyes roll some dice every time they gather/craft.

You would get the same sense of control if you were right clicking on a freaking ore, like every other games out there do. It's SquareEnix mindset to put a buttload of RNG everywhere.

Considering I took Botany up solely so I wouldn't have to buy all my logs, probably.

I do feel some sympathy for your addiction, I used to feel like this as well. Needless to say, your life must be terribly depressing if you insist on grinding this much in the current game though.

[Hyan]

The only regret in life I have is to have allowed myself to constantly be trolled by this guy. What a fool I have been.

[Lordender]

What did the little "mini-games" add to the game? If anything it scared a lot of people away by being SO tedious, you wanna know what the real problem FF14 has? It was overcomplicated just for the sake of trying to be different, only the masochists love how things currently are and wouldn't want to see a single thing be streamlined so people will actually return to the game. I don't know about you but I just love seeing an empty game world outside of a few people at level 40 camps on my server! must be because the game is so good right?

There was no benefit to add it into gathering. Shit got old when hitting level 10, there is nothing cool about the mini-games involved. It didn't even stop rmt, it didn't do anything but annoy the shit out of people which is why we're here in the first place, another peice of the puzzle as to why Yoshi-P is trying to revive the game.

So i'll ask this simple question, who was the target audience for this game? Very few people are going to like jumping through hoops to accomplish even the smallest of tasks in a post-WoW era of MMO gaming. I'm sure the FFXI only gamer would learn to put up with it because they got used to it after years of FFXI but if i'm a totally new player trying 14 out i'm probably hating on how they handled the whole thing. This game is the master at making the player jump through every single possible hoop that it can. Wanna craft? play the mini-game, want to mine/cut tree's? play the mini-game! it took something so simple that many modern mmo's had polished up and completely added things that were totally not needed.

I feel like the only thing that should be RNG when it comes to crafting is if its HQ or NQ, fuck when the game says "lol, this synth is going to botch no matter what you do." thats just another piece of why the game got put on life support. I totally see where the dev's were coming from in wanting this intricate crafting and gathering system but all they really did was create a very bad and tedious system that just created an even bigger frustration between the players.

Different isn't always better, I think SE needs to learn that. You don't need gimmicks to things that should be quick and fast. I was totally not a fan of how they implemented gathering and crafting because it just feels so archaic and designed to make you spend triple the time for little reason because you're forced to play the mini-game!

If yoshi-P is going to be successful in bringing people back to the game and getting new players to look past all the bad press the game got then they need to really streamline all the BS down, speed the game up.

[miokomioko]

In so many words, you just said "I have absolutely no idea how any of it works, I just want it to be easier to make money and faster to get rank 50."

[Hyan]

All I've heard from random people playing the game on different gaming forums is that they liked how crafting is set-up, and it was actually quite addicting and fun, but the combat doesn't keep up.

I'm sure some just want to click on an object and everything happens instantly (especially for lower level mass-production recipes, which Yoshida is going to address), but in this case there's just not something you could do to keep everyone happy, like with streamlining the UI or something. Different people, different PoV's.

I don't think most I've seen criticize the system have come off as someone who would like to play a crafter or gatherer-only profession, it's just something to do on the side for them.

[Waraji]

Learning the secrets of crafting and gathering, (ie. actually be a skilled player), gives far better rewards than if it were just a simple click and enter. This time around it is able to easily separate the shitty players from the great players. Something that has been clearly shown by the crafting/gathering bashers thus far. I for one am all for tweaking the current system to maximize our actual hand in the outcome of our products, rather than much of the randomness currently attributed to crafting HQ's, although that in itself might be part of the crafting secret we haven't been able to Fully uncover yet.

Bitching about gathering class mini-games being too tedious after the last couple patches is just... lazy. Go play WoW?

[Lordender]

In so many words, you just said "I have absolutely no idea how any of it works, I just want it to be easier to make money and faster to get rank 50."

totally missed the point, Who even gives a fuck about money? or the economy, this is about advancing, making your time feel like it was well-spent instead of "lol mini-game time" "lol mini-game time."

Money is so trivial in this game right now its not even funny. Please keep trying to defend the shitty system, if the system is so great then where are all the people at?

Oh thats right, they only play when leve's reset so they can leve link raine and dunesfolk.

[Hyan]

Money is so trivial in this game right now its not even funny.

Problem.

minigames

Not a problem.

[Waraji]

You then might have missed their point altogether which I believe was that some people rather have it be Easy and boring just trying to hit cap. The fact that nothing in the game matters at this point including gear, gil, and fight accomplishments is clear sign that crafting/gather at its current state is being overshadowed by a greater amount of problems that doesn't seem to use the classes to their intended potential.

[Kaylia]

In so many words, you just said "I have absolutely no idea how any of it works, I just want it to be easier to make money and faster to get rank 50."

That's not what he said, but keep being stupid, you're good at that.

All I've heard from random people playing the game on different gaming forums is that they liked how crafting is set-up, and it was actually quite addicting and fun, but the combat doesn't keep up.

Let me rephrase that


All I've heard from random person playing the game on different gaming forums is that they liked how crafting is set-up, and it was actually quite addicting and fun at camp black brush for the first time, but the combat doesn't keep up


And you know, if you're next to someone really ugly...you might almost look pretty.

[Tomino]

I like what SE tried to do by adding mini-games to craft/gather. Those of you who mentioned "control over my products" are absolutely right.

On the other hand, the mini-game gets terribly tedious if you come from "certain other games" or if you just want a piece of armour and not to become a major seller or ore investor.


Anyway, this could be easily fixed : "everyday" crafts should not use the mini-game system (like when I had to craft 8-10 linen bolt and it took me 10 mins), while the moment you have to craft some precious hauberk players should be allowed to pop their craft/minigame GUI and have fun with that.

[Hyan]

Anyway, this could be easily fixed : "everyday" crafts should not use the mini-game system

Once in a while happy-go-lucky "I do it only because I need X for my Y" crafters shouldn't need to craft.

[Tomino]

I don't get the stance.
So if you aren't gonna do it the hardcore way, don't bother applying?

Best designs are accessible AND complex, allowing easy access at start and becoming higly customable near the end.

[Hyan]

I don't get the stance.
So if you aren't gonna do it the hardcore way, don't bother applying?

Best designs are accessible AND complex, allowing easy access at start and becoming higly customable near the end.

If the 'non-hardcore' way consists of simply pushing a button and shit happens, why bother having one at all?