"Hundred shields" PLD :)

**Atoreis** · 2011-04-28 08:49

Originally Posted by Heian

I am not exactly sure what were are arguing about at this point, I guess it would be along the lines of Ochain being a toy, a very useful toy if PLD was worth using again. When paired up with Alamace it looks like some great results, I just do not see the feasible for most players. Also the Bukhis example doesn't make a whole lot of sense, since it would be a slow fight regardless of low man setup in that situation. Those moves happening suck no matter what.

Personally I would love to pimp out my PLD with Ochain and Alamce and have it be useful again, but I still think Ochains are not going to be very prevalent unless PLD becomes useful again as a tank. It's asking a lot out of people to upgrade Ochain given that no good linkshell actually tanks with them anymore.

Also don't play the mad card, like a friend of mine says, "I even ain't mad, just disappointed"

I think You exaggerate how hard is to get Ochain.

Also idk If you know or if I didn't understand you well but successful block on physical tp move prevent all add effect to take effect including cruor loss after Lethal clip.

**Cleverness** · 2011-04-28 09:01

Originally Posted by Atoreis

I think You exaggerate how hard is to get Ochain.

The plates and azdaja claws are easy, the colorless souls are annoying as all hell cause of the sheer randomness of upgrading to T3. Red proc should force an upgrade honestly. Can't even really camp in Jeuno and shout to buy pops cause there's 3-4 other people doing it on this server that time is better spent trying to upgrade one ourselves.

**Atoreis** · 2011-04-28 09:05

Originally Posted by Cleverness

The plates and azdaja claws are easy, the colorless souls are annoying as all hell cause of the sheer randomness of upgrading to T3. Red proc should force an upgrade honestly. Can't even really camp in Jeuno and shout to buy pops cause there's 3-4 other people doing it on this server that time is better spent trying to upgrade one ourselves.

Took me about 10 days to get souls with 3-4 chars. Usually 1h spent with 3 ppl to get 3x t2. Avg 3-4 t2 to get t3 so about one t3 per hour. 4-5 t3 per day with avg of 7.5 soul.

**Fievel** · 2011-04-28 09:11

While cool and an interesting idea, I fail to see the point in taking pld to cleave any mob in any zone. After cleaving and getting time/pops/whatever else you need, you're going to be pretty inefficient on pld. That's why I cata-cleave on mnk, because after cleaving I can actually use my time/pops efficiently.

Cool nonetheless though.

**Mafai** · 2011-04-28 09:13

Originally Posted by Atoreis

I think You exaggerate how hard is to get Ochain.

Also idk If you know or if I didn't understand you well but successful block on physical tp move prevent all add effect to take effect including cruor loss after Lethal clip.

I agree the difficultly is exaggerated. I just reparsed my log.

Iron Plates took me 4 nights of solo (multi-boxing).

Spoiler: show

Colorless took me 12 nights of casual play, the T1 > T2 is mindless farming. Also, I solo farmed 95% of my pops. 2 T2's and 2 T3's were given to me by people who just wanted the SS/H2H from levi. I could have done this faster if I rotated zones as I killed the T2's, but I chose to stay and farm Empousa / Ixion between pops to get +2 mats. The T3 and T2 is killable with just DD + WHM, the Tidal wave on T3 is always at 1% HP, if it would manage to take me down a holy would finish it off.

Spoiler: show

I personally consider Azdaja the hardest stage, since you will need a bit of help here. I started off cleaving rather then just NM farming, and managed to do this in 4 days. This is only a pain since you will need some help for the fight. If you give away the AF mats, its easy to get help.

Spoiler: show

**Atoreis** · 2011-04-28 09:25

Originally Posted by Fievel

While cool and an interesting idea, I fail to see the point in taking pld to cleave any mob in any zone. After cleaving and getting time/pops/whatever else you need, you're going to be pretty inefficient on pld. That's why I cata-cleave on mnk, because after cleaving I can actually use my time/pops efficiently.

Cool nonetheless though.

I honestly have no idea what are you writing about. Almace+Ochain PLD is much easier to cleave and faster. It's about 2 times slower on NMs fighting traditional way (no links like in a movie) so they are about even at this point (PLD lose time on NM but gain on cleave). So what left? Red staggers PLD has 9/13 idk about MNK but definitely much less. Blue staggers MNK obviously win but who cleave before doing some NM with blue stagger. Yellow stagger in lowman MNK need WHM support PLD can go with BLM/brd on 90% NMs and be fine.

**Fievel** · 2011-04-28 09:40

Originally Posted by Atoreis

I honestly have no idea what are you writing about. Almace+Ochain PLD is much easier to cleave and faster. It's about 2 times slower on NMs fighting traditional way (no links like in a movie) so they are about even at this point (PLD lose time on NM but gain on cleave). So what left? Red staggers PLD has 9/13 idk about MNK but definitely much less. Blue staggers MNK obviously win but who cleave before doing some NM with blue stagger. Yellow stagger in lowman MNK need WHM support PLD can go with BLM/brd on 90% NMs and be fine.

I was in no way talking about staggering, I was talking about the amount of time it would take a pld whm duo to do a mob like glavoid compared to a mnk whm duo, or any DD + whm for that matter. and how the hell do you think pld is faster at cleaving? I pull the mobs so I get tp on the pull(usually have 300% from isl anyways though) then hundred fist right when getting the mobs back to camp, 2-3 cata clears all the mobs and with hundred fists I'm getting tp at a ridiculous rate.

My point is its inefficient to do any form of farming with a pld, sorry if that hurts your feelings.

**Mojo** · 2011-04-28 09:42

You definitely don't need an Ochain to solo cleave mobs (which is somewhat useful if you're multi brewing Isgeband.) Also in that situation PLD > MNK due to quickness of magic aggro pulling.

**Arthars** · 2011-04-28 10:00

Originally Posted by Atoreis

I honestly have no idea what are you writing about. Almace+Ochain PLD is much easier to cleave and faster. It's about 2 times slower on NMs fighting traditional way (no links like in a movie) so they are about even at this point (PLD lose time on NM but gain on cleave). So what left? Red staggers PLD has 9/13 idk about MNK but definitely much less.

wat the fuck?

your telling me fell cleave and cata-monk is harder and slower? (im assuming we are discussing in the context of MNK and WAR cleaving as they are the norm)

or are you comparing to WHM earth crusher

i understand you talking about red stagger as an advantage, but im sure a NIN or WAR can cleave faster, stagger as much, and kill a NM twice faster

no offense here but u seem to make this thread more of a "omfg PLD is da fucking shit now" than a "PLD can still be decent in abyssea guys even we are less prefered" discussion

Originally Posted by Atoreis

Blue staggers MNK obviously win but who cleave before doing some NM with blue stagger.

why not? i have sold at least 7 goading belt while cleaving for chloris KI. 2m a pop.

Originally Posted by Atoreis

Yellow stagger in lowman MNK need WHM support PLD can go with BLM/brd on 90% NMs and be fine.

why are we even discussing about yellow stagger now.

I still love my PLD friend(Anli) tho

**Fievel** · 2011-04-28 10:11

Originally Posted by Arthars

why are we even discussing about yellow stagger now

He pulled staggers out of his ass to try to defend his terrible point.

Spoiler: show

**Byrthnoth** · 2011-04-28 10:16

In my experience, the limiting factors on cleave speed (in order of importance) are:
1) How quickly you can sort through boxes
2) How quickly monsters respawn and begin to agro/link again
3) How quickly you can collect them without deagroing any
4) How quickly you kill

On Dancer, it takes me about exactly 5 minutes to cleave an entire population of Tahrongi monsters (via my Fan Dance timer) Chests to Chests if I have people leeching and popping chests. It takes a little longer if I'm doing it myself, and if both my characters cap out on KIs and I can pull without checking golds then my minimum is somewhere between 4 and 5 minutes per round.

The best part of this kind of cleaving is probably that you can do it with essentially any Atma and solo. It'll be slower if you do it with pure DD Atma, but not substantially slower considering how long it takes monsters to repop and how fast you get TP with a bunch of them swinging at you.

**Atoreis** · 2011-04-28 10:16

Originally Posted by Arthars

wat the fuck?

your telling me fell cleave and cata-monk is harder and slower? (im assuming we are discussing in the context of MNK and WAR cleaving as they are the norm)

or are you comparing to WHM earth crusher

i understand you talking about stagger as an advantage, but im sure a NIN or WAR can cleave faster, stagger as much, and kill a NM twice as fast

Yes I am saying that PLD is faster at cleave then NIN or WAR and much safer if we talking about lowmaning.

WAR will have a hard time pulling 20+ mobs with just one whm to support and fell cleave has very small radius which usually ends up with needing to finish some mobs that were behind you.
NIN TP gain while cleave is much much slower then PLD.
Idk about other jobs but PLD can cleave pretty much everything that doesn't cast or ra so in case someone already cleaving the best one you can go on something else.

Idk how you can say NIN is faster at cleave then PLD after watching the movie lol. Seriously if your NIN do Aedge fast enough to make skillchains with just whm support then you are phenomenal.
PLD also need no 2hr or anything so before you find 2hr chest im already pulling on PLD.

**Arthars** · 2011-04-28 10:17

there are suckers who still dont have 2nd account to do anything yet haha

ifrit people are rich, they even pay 200k for a ardor jewel and 2m for phurba (dnc onry power!!!)

**Fievel** · 2011-04-28 10:19

Originally Posted by Atoreis

PLD also need no 2hr or anything so before you find 2hr chest im already pulling on PLD.

Jesus christ you're an idiot, it's simple to find an isl chest before the mobs even begin to respawn, so your point is invalid.

This is a fun little toy, but nothing more, don't try to fool yourself into thinking you stumbled onto something that is going to make pld have a use again, other jobs are still better.

Spoiler: show

**Byrthnoth** · 2011-04-28 10:21

Friends got 1.5mil for 3 freaking Stones of Balance (Sobek) off a JP last week. I know that we're having incredible inflation right now, but that's just crazy.

**Fievel** · 2011-04-28 10:22

Originally Posted by Byrthnoth

Friends got 1.5mil for 3 freaking Stones of Balance (Sobek) off a JP last week. I know that we're having incredible inflation right now, but that's just crazy.

Shit, I'm coming to your server, lol

**Arthars** · 2011-04-28 10:28

Originally Posted by Atoreis

Yes I am saying that PLD is faster at cleave then NIN or WAR and much safer if we talking about lowmaning.

FASTER AND SAFER? wtf since when is cleaving dangerous and who cleave with more than 4 people?! mobs die before everyone get to TP i bet, they are mostly idle people collecting KI

Originally Posted by Atoreis

WAR will have a hard time pulling 20+ mobs with just one whm to support and fell cleave has very small radius which usually ends up with needing to finish some mobs that were behind you.

How hard is pulling 20 mobs with hermes sandals? Why is 1 whm a hard time curing war when mobs die so fast with mighty strikes(you can almost always get 1 recovery box btw and since u dont utilise it, your stupid, or your SP doesnt do shit, in this case, invincible)

Originally Posted by Atoreis

NIN TP gain while cleave is much much slower then PLD.
Idk about other jobs but PLD can cleave pretty much everything that doesn't cast or ra so in case someone already cleaving the best one you can go on something else.

Idk how you can say NIN is faster at cleave then PLD after watching the movie lol. Seriously if your NIN do Aedge fast enough to make skillchains with just whm support then you are phenomenal.

i watched your movie and its fucking normal(talking about cleave speed) which is why i have to argue about this. MUCH MUCH SLOWER? You ever heard of mercurial kris + kraken club on NIN? nuff said. (ya not everyone can afford a KC, but also not everyone can have an ochain) If im serious about cleaving, i go /sam for medidate and sekka and i finish mobs off before i even do any TPing. and yes i still can kill NM faster with /SAM. Maybe we can still have an argument if you remove that 2 "much much". Fievel already discuss about MNK + /SAM + 2H and how much faster it is. so idk how you can argue on MNK's part.

Originally Posted by Atoreis

PLD also need no 2hr or anything so before you find 2hr chest im already pulling on PLD.

need cruor for brews much? cant do w/o brew? open all blue chest with a macro then

**Taint** · 2011-04-28 10:33

Cool Videos

**Atoreis** · 2011-04-28 10:36

Originally Posted by Fievel

Jesus christ you're an idiot, it's simple to find an isl chest before the mobs even begin to respawn, so your point is invalid.

This is a fun little toy, but nothing more, don't try to fool yourself into thinking you stumbled onto something that is going to make pld have a use again, other jobs are still better.

Spoiler: show

I know you probably think that you are never wrong etc. but You wrote that PLD is inefficient after cleave and you didn't specified why and since you can cleave for many purpose pulling out staggers was natural thing to do.

Just curious how you kill glavoid on mnk + whm ? stun all Disgorge?

Also if you talking about glavoid I don't see how staggers are irrelevant? It's much more efficient to finish pop set in Tahrongi by killing NMs you missing then pray for last KI while loosing tons in the process. In this case 9/13 staggers on PLD is very relevant vs MNK.

Also if you getting all KI from chests then go kill NM then you aren't optimal either because THF would be much more efficient which by your logic makes MNK inefficient like PLD.

**Bling** · 2011-04-28 10:36

I've been cleaving on pld also just for the novelty of the brew like TP gain from so many things hitting Ochain. I have used monk/ninja/war also on cleaves also quite a bit but I like pld the most so far just because it's so much easier to gather tons of shit and not die (w/o having to use fanatics or something). I was getting every detector in uleguerand range when farming wyrm KI and TE and could do the pull, kill, box check in 5 min or w/e sentinel recast is. Same with chigoe in chasm when I farmed moth pops. The nice thing was that if people started killing shit there and they lvled up to T or something I could still pull most of the rest and not die like I would on mnk or nin if I couldn't evade enough.

One big downside to this is that it's difficult to do with every mob. Some bigger enemies don't wanna cluster up on themselves and just get behind/on top of you or constantly move so you you can't see them etc. Sort of the same deal as with "normal" cleave but with the extra requirement of having to get them all in front of you. It's super easy on chigoe and detectors (detectors mag aggro too which is awesome). Another bitch is that once you kill the whole lot then you have like 15 chests stacked on top of themselves to check through :/

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