on religious people and conspiracy theorists

[Kuya]

Did you ever have success disabusing anyone of their conspiracy theory?

Not once. The reason is that when you debate a conspiracy theorist it's like challenging an NFL football team to a game. Because conspiracy theorists have spent their lives memorizing every single detail necessary to win an argument. Even if you have the facts on your side in an abstract way, you're not going to win an argument if you have to go look at Google or go to the library to rebut every single point. They have hundreds of little confusing bits of information that they can throw at you. Even if you bat away 99 of them, the 100th, if you don't repute it immediately, they'll say, "Ah ha! There's an anomaly that you can't explain." The way they define the terms of the debate is that they just have to get you on one point, and then they have destroyed the validity of the conventional narrative.

The second thing is, it's a cult. And you can't disabuse a cult member of their beliefs, because it's central to their identity. Hardcore conspiracy theorists are attached to their conspiracy theories with the same force of conviction that religious adherents are attached to their religions. You can't rationally convince someone not to be a Christian or a Scientologist. That's their identity, that's who they are.

Pretty much words to live by.

[Conrad]

I too want to be controversial

[Alleya]

I find that for conspiracy theories and religions, there's usually one or two central points that the rational person can use to poke a hole large enough in that narrative that other people, who are not conspiracy nuts or zealots, can recognize the craziness. That's why I still bother to argue with those people. If no one does, then they get to spew their shit into the world completely unfiltered. You just have to be weary of allowing them to drag you down into the debate over the minutia like the quote describes.

[Colenzo]

so kill glen beck?

[Kuya]

I find that for conspiracy theories and religions, there's usually one or two central points that the rational person can use to poke a hole large enough in that narrative that other people, who are not conspiracy nuts or zealots, can recognize the craziness. That's why I still bother to argue with those people. If no one does, then they get to spew their shit into the world completely unfiltered.

I find that mocking them is more effective.

[Kuya]

I too want to be controversial

About what?

[Alleya]

Well, of course, when you're poking that hole you do it in the most dismissive, sarcastic, and mean spirited way possible.

[Kuya]

You want to convince people who are not so religious that religion is stupid?

[Alleya]

Basically, I guess? I think most people who consider themselves religious (in the US) simply do so out of habit and tradition and lack of exposure to competing ideas. They believe it because they never really had cause to question it or examine it too closely. It's the same thing as spreading any other ideology: you have to get people aware of it and thinking about it.

Conspiracy nuts are a bit of a different animal.

[Kuya]

You know what, i think i agree with you.

[Kuya]

As long as the bystanders don't feel attacked, i think that's a good strategy.

[Conrad]

About what?

Does it matter?

[#686578]

Pretty much words to live by.

But if we live by these words dont we make a fool of what these words stand for? If we wanted to do these words justice we would take them by their merit and truly ponder their meaning rather than take them at face value.

[Colenzo]

I just realized, there are a ton of threads in all caps on the front page of spam.

[Conrad]

I just realized, there are a ton of threads in all caps on the front page of spam.

it's a conspiracy

[Colenzo]

exactly

[Blarg]

You want to convince people who are not so religious that religion is stupid?

that's basically how professional debates work. you argue against the other person but you are really arguing to convince the audience.

besides, the persons pride is usually too much to immediately admit that you have changed their mind but a week down the road the things you have said to them may have weakened them a little bit. when this happens enough times someone can change their mind but it will still usually happen a while after the argument while they sit alone and think.

[#686578]

You're straying awfully close to making a serious post there Blarg

[Blarg]

You're straying awfully close to making a serious post there Blarg

sorry, it won't happen again

[Kuya]

Does it matter?

Huh?