How to train a kitten

[LinktheDeme]

The thing is, if you're looking for a pet to benefit your child (or yourself, or any other family member), the natural choice shouldn't be "Let's get a kitten and mangle its feet because my landlord won't let me keep it otherwise!" That's like saying, "Let's find the most difficult solution to this!"

I understand moving isn't an option for a lot of people, but you'd think the natural choice in this situation (landlord accepts a cat, but only if declawed) would be to get an already declawed cat from a shelter or elsewhere, since there's so many cats out there that need homes, anyway.

Declawing and keeping claws aside. I don't know about you but I wouldn't ever get a pet from a shelter because of the fear of being it being previously abused. The risk is still there that the pet won't trust you or has some permanent damage to it mentally or physically. I always fear the thought that the damage done in its previous life is too unreversable and it'll have "episodes" making it less ideal(and in some cases unsafe) for a pet.

In my opinion pets are investments, like people. You are going to have to pay for all of their needs and devote time and attention. If you get a bad apple from the start then and the damage is indeed unable to be reversed, all of the time, affection, and money that you put in the pet is essentially a waste. I don't know about you but I don't like spending resources and love on something when it isn't going to appreciate it, spit back, and piss all over everything I own. An example I can think of off the top of my head is my friend's dog who absolutely HATES black people because of its previous owners.

[Guyverarmor]

That's why you normally spend time with them at the shelter before you decide to get them O.o not just pick one and say "I want that one, let's go" I always tell people if they are going to get a pet, get one from the shelter. Granted, there may be some bad apples, I have seen them... but there are A LOT more of the abandoned ones that just want to be loved and get a home. My female cat was abandoned in a box when she was two weeks old. Got her at the shelter, and man, she follows me around everywhere. Never had a problem with her at all.

Tl;dr I know there are some bad ones, but majority of them are just looking for someone to give em a home

[Lexa]

Depending on where you get the pet from, there are also shelters and pet adoption organizations who will make sure the pet doesn't have any behavioral problems that would make it unadoptable, and animals that display aggressive behavior gets put down, since they're not safe around people. A few years back I was looking into adopting a dog, and the shelter we went to then wouldn't let us until we'd visited a few times and spent a certain amount of time with the dog, and they also informed us of anything that might make the dog "less than ideal."

[shaddix]

Well this thread has convinced me to get a cat and allow it indoors. I think the hair and shit all over the place is worth the health benefits.

[Odin'sLaw]

in the past i've/family have had 5 sheltered cats and 4 pet shop/kittens the one's from the shelter have all been fine (2 of them we're kittens the male kitten used to sit on my shoulder and pretend to be pikachu) the other sets of kittens we had are still with my nan and are lovely temperament and playful

never once has one of my Nan's mum's or my cats ever destroyed floors carpets or furniture

i know your now stuck in a situation where you don't want to give the cat up but declawing is a terrible thing the best way to describe it is me getting a butchers knife and repeatedly slashing at your ankle till it comes off and having you walk around on your leg bone, even tho your "just" removing the finger tips it will effect the cat more then you can see now, in 2-3-4 maybe 5 years your kitten will start walking funny do you really want to see your cat in pain every time it walks or moves? it might "just" be a cat but its a living ceature it feels pain and theres no need for it to be in pain because your land lord is cruel, I'm sure if push comes to shove you could go to your vets and ask them to make a fake recite for you i'm sure they would prefer to do then then actually declaw it

[Correction]

Difference being that male cats don't really receive any harm or negative side effects by being castrated (other than having an easier time gaining weight). It's actually something I would recommend for indoor male cats, as they will run around pissing on everything, and that is something that's extremely hard to train away. They also become more calm, less aggressive and more relaxed. Let's face it, an indoor male cat don't really have a use for their balls anyway, unless you have a female cat and you want to breed your own cats.

Also damn qal got mad in this thread lol

[Uzor]

I am sorry if I disagree with some of you that cats belong at the top of the food chain. Most of the time we as humans derive more benefit from animals than they do from us. I do not understand how some of you are so against declawing a cat if it is the only method of ownership of one. If you eat meat then you are contributing to the psychological torture of pigs, cows, chickens, etc. unless you are able to purchase expensive grass fed, free range meats. I am unable to see why it's okay to torture animals and eat meat to nourish your body(which isn't necessary, you can live off grains) but it is not ok declaw a cat for the physical and psychological benefits a pet provides(also unnecessary, so what's the difference?).

Even if you are able to buy only meat that you know came from happy animals, you are still killing them for a benefit that is not even needed(are all of you cat lovers vegan?). Is killing a pig which is supposedly more intelligent than a cat better than declawing? At least the cat is still alive and lives through its adult life, and probably still purrs. I do not think you can conclusively say that it will always, 100% of the time, ruin the cat for life if you declaw it. I remember playing with declawed cats before and they acted like normal cats as far as I could tell, they didn't spend all their time on top of the fridge or bite everything in sight.

I haven't seen anyone that say cats belong at the top of the food chain. If declawing a cat is the only way you can own one, then don't get a cat, as it's clearly against regulations to get one. You shouldn't put an animal through pain just because you want to have a pet - that's just cruel.

As for the food part, I don't eat pig meat because pigs are intelligent animals, the same way I don't eat dogs, cats, dolphins, elephants, monkeys and intelligent birds like parrots and crows. I also only eat meat from cows that have roamed free (I'm assuming that's "free range" in english), and that have not been put through torture or had to spend an excessive amount of time getting transported to the slaughter house, and I don't drink milk because most milk cows are treated badly. Yes, you can live off of grains, so I eat a lot of them. Although where I live it's not too hard to find "free range" meat from animals treated kindly

It isn't just claws. They have to amputate the last bone with the claw because the claw producing cells are embedded in the bone. Imagine if someone amputated the last metacarpal on each of your fingers.

I did a little bit more research about the process last night and talked to my wife who is a vet tech about it and I learned some stuff.

Relatively recently in the last 5 years or so they have developed a new technique for declawing cats that doesn't damage the tendon running to the ends of their paws. This is the "retractor" tendon that allows them to flex their feet and bring their claws in and out. If the vet uses this new technique there is a very very low nonoccurence of physical complications from the surgery and because the tendon is intact they shouldn't develop arthritis later on.

The issue is not very many vets use this technique yet. And the technique isn't perfect but in a situation where it must be done it is the best way to do it.

If it's the technique I've read about (I know of two techniques), they've done studies on the new one, and it was showed to only be marginally safer than the old one.

[shaddix]

I haven't seen anyone that say cats belong at the top of the food chain. If declawing a cat is the only way you can own one, then don't get a cat, as it's clearly against regulations to get one. You shouldn't put an animal through pain just because you want to have a pet - that's just cruel.

Why do you put animal welfare above your own?

[Eticket]

Declawing and keeping claws aside. I don't know about you but I wouldn't ever get a pet from a shelter because of the fear of being it being previously abused. The risk is still there that the pet won't trust you or has some permanent damage to it mentally or physically. I always fear the thought that the damage done in its previous life is too unreversable and it'll have "episodes" making it less ideal(and in some cases unsafe) for a pet.

Nearly all of my cats have been rescues or strays. In fact, the only one that isn't was a kitten from one of the strays. So far they've all worked out well.

[Uzor]

Why do you put animal welfare above your own?

When did I say I did? I said that if you're going to get an animal you should treat it with respect and dignity. Nothing say you can't be concerned about your own welfare without putting animals through unnecessary suffering.

You know, dog meat can be very good meat if you torture the dog right before it dies. It sends a lot of adrenaline in to its muscles, making for very tender tasty meat. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I could clip the end of the fingers off from a cat, doesn't mean I should. If I choose not to, that doesn't effect my welfare or well-being. As a matter of fact, not doing so increases my welfare because it brings me happiness knowing that my cats are not in pain and are in a good, happy, loving home. I would feel dreadful knowing that a mutilated my own cats.

As for what I eat, I feel better knowing that what I eat didn't put animals through unnecessary suffering. It increases my welfare.

[Ksandra]

Why do you put animal welfare above your own?

again, the gain you get from a pet is so minor in comparison to the injury you cause the the pet by declawing. Comparing the two is retarded.



By your logic it should be ok to brutally beat/abuse/starve/rip arms off an animal if it makes you feel better.


Granted, you're entitled to your opinion, but don't pretend to be ignorant of the fact most people don't deem that ok even towards the animals that feed us.

[shaddix]

again, the gain you get from a pet is so minor in comparison to the injury you cause the the pet by declawing. Comparing the two is retarded.

this statement is incorrect

1) it isn't a minor gain

2) it's an animal

edit:

When did I say I did?

"You shouldn't put an animal through pain just because you want to have a pet"


edit2: I don't see this ever resolving so I guess I give up. I just don't value animals as much as you guys it seems.

[Uzor]

this statement is incorrect

1) it isn't a minor gain

2) it's an animal

I hope you don't have an animal with that attitude. Yes, it's an animal. But why does it matter? Animals can feel pain, fear, stress, hunger. That's something all mammals have in common. A lot of animals can feel love and sadness, as is evident by elephants helping out other flock members, or can be seen standing over a dead flock member mourning for hours or even days. A lot of animals also stick together as a couple their entire life, and some of them are even homosexual and can be seen to form a couple with with the same sex and adopt children of deceased parents.

No, I'm not saying you should treat animals as an equal. But you don't have to in order to respect animals. Just because you don't want to willingly hurt animals doesn't mean you value them more than yourself or more than other humans. I don't value a 100-year old angry woman more than a 10 year old happy girl. Doesn't mean I'll go cut the old lady's fingers of if it makes the little girl happy.

[LinktheDeme]

By your logic it should be ok to brutally beat/abuse/starve/rip arms off an animal if it makes you feel better.

I think we can agree that this is an exaggerative extrapolation from his statement. I assumed his position wasn't necessarily on making one feel better rather weighing the cost of the potential damage of the claw to a family member(be it accident or not), the potential cost of furniture, the potential cost of damage to someone who is not a family member following a potential lawsuit, and etc.

Also to Uzor, that analogy won't work to convince him as you haven't broken the barrier that they are still animals in his mentality. Essentially he saw that and said no, that is one human harming another that is completely different. All that analogy does is reaffirm the beliefs of those that have the same as yours. You're going to have to break down that barrier and explain it in detail rather than offer an analogy if you want to convince him.

Honestly I can't think of an argument to try and convince someone that the cost of de-clawing an "animal" is not worth it, to someone that doesn't value pets on an equal level of their own. Especially when the animal can survive and live a seemingly happy life, not to mention how socially mainstream it is.

For reference, I'm neutral on the matter. (yay for objectivity, sry too much auditing <_<)

[Ksandra]

I think we can agree that this is an exaggeration extrapolation from his statement. I assumed his position wasn't necessarily on making one feel better rather weighing the cost of the potential damage of the claw to a family member(be it accident or not), the potential cost of furniture, the potential cost of damage to someone who is not a family member following a potential lawsuit, and etc.

I would disagree because he's retorted that against getting the cat in the first place. So it's more to it than just clawing furniture. He's stating pets give humans a bonus so who the fuck cares what you do to the animal if it's going to make you happier.

[LinktheDeme]

I would disagree because he's retorted that against getting the cat in the first place. So it's more to it than just clawing furniture. He's stating pets give humans a bonus so who the fuck cares what you do to the animal if it's going to make you happier.

"I'm not saying people who think declawing a cat does nothing to it aren't idiots. And as I said above I personally would not declaw a cat if possible." pg 10

This is what I would use as my basis to support that he wouldn't kill it for making an individual happier. Although he's probably said more than enough to support both sides. I guess no one really knows between trolling and saving face what his intentions truly are, so I'll just stop before this turns into a debate.

[Haiko]

You know humans are animals as well so i can treat you like shit as well because like you said...it's just an animal.

[Gredival]

I think it would be better if animals, even those raised purely for consumption, were treated humanely. I'll admit though that I don't pay the gigantic mark-up for animal products that claim to meet this standard. However complicity with meat consumption and cruelty in the industry does not entail permissiveness of all types of animal abuse.

I mean let's say that Tim has psychopathic tendencies such that animal abuse is a great stress reliever for him. Does that make it okay for him to just beat the shit out of animals for his own benefit. (Assuming that it's not like his animal abuse prevents a breakdown where he kills people, it just helps him relax like smoking weed would.) No you would tell Tim to go get some fucking Prozac.

But I think Rata's display of ignorance and irresponsibility indicate he has no business owning a pet and I quite frankly don't give a shit about denying him the benefits of pet ownership.

Like I said I got 3 choices

1) declaw it

2) not declaw and get expelled for not following the rules of the building

3 ) not declaw and go in court for not following the rules.

4. Don't get a fucking cat.

I have a cat because I want an animal, can't get a dog

Happy now?

Do it right or don't do it, deal with it broski.

[zoobernut]

When did I say I did? I said that if you're going to get an animal you should treat it with respect and dignity. Nothing say you can't be concerned about your own welfare without putting animals through unnecessary suffering.

You know, dog meat can be very good meat if you torture the dog right before it dies. It sends a lot of adrenaline in to its muscles, making for very tender tasty meat. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I could clip the end of the fingers off from a cat, doesn't mean I should. If I choose not to, that doesn't effect my welfare or well-being. As a matter of fact, not doing so increases my welfare because it brings me happiness knowing that my cats are not in pain and are in a good, happy, loving home. I would feel dreadful knowing that a mutilated my own cats.

As for what I eat, I feel better knowing that what I eat didn't put animals through unnecessary suffering. It increases my welfare.

I don't know personally about dog meat but if dog meat is anything like other meats this statement is false. I know that it is at least false when pertaining to cows. Slaughter houses and meat processing plants have spent billions of dollars researching ways to kill the cows when they are least stressed out because a stressed out animal tastes worse. You can actually tell if the cow was scared or stressed when it was killed because the color of the meat is different. Processing plants have lost millions of dollars worth of meat because it was bad due to high stress levels in the animals at the time of slaughter.

[Uzor]

I don't know personally about dog meat but if dog meat is anything like other meats this statement is false. I know that it is at least false when pertaining to cows. Slaughter houses and meat processing plants have spent billions of dollars researching ways to kill the cows when they are least stressed out because a stressed out animal tastes worse. You can actually tell if the cow was scared or stressed when it was killed because the color of the meat is different. Processing plants have lost millions of dollars worth of meat because it was bad due to high stress levels in the animals at the time of slaughter.

In China they slaughter the dogs when they're scared, preferably through strangling or hanging them upside-down for two reasons: It gives better meat, and better fur. So it serves a double purpose.