The Official Forums II: Out Here Grindin'

[Deader2818]

Hrm, I tried to do the transfer and it says that I can't and to contact Square Enix to look into it.
Do I want to have the patience for this shit?

Did you make any changes this month? IE" Make a new content ID, transfer servers, restart your ID, etc?

[Dooom]

The answer to DRK sucking is to make it a pet job. Obviously.

Even worse is the "drain samba = blood weapon" QQing. I thought we got over that years ago. Like, within a week of dnc being available to play.

Perhaps it was just me but wasn't SEs initial vision of PUP as being a versatile DD with the automaton being the power behind that versatility? I tend to run when a PUP declares they can heal a party and I feel BLU has turned out to be a far more versatile class.

This could be my BLU bias speaking however, being my favorite job and all.

This is my recollection also, and you are right regarding versatility. Admittedly I initially levelled pup to troll people when I finished my Vereth, but gave it a proper go playing it because I always thought it looked fun and interesting. Instead I found it frustrating and underpowered.

As far as bst goes, SE insist they don't want, and never intended it be a solo class, but I have most fun doing things with it that fall under the "typical" bst umbrella - throw a pet at a mob until it dies, get a new pet, etc. etc. I will point out that you're wrong in saying smn can dismiss and resummon whereas bst cannot, however - Leave will make a normal pet uncharm and a jug pet despawn, allowing the bst to charm/summon another. I couldn't make a judgement call on which type of pet is typically stronger, however, especially not outside abyssea; and while I enjoy both jobs, I rarely ever find myself thinking "man, bst or smn would be perfect for this" - instead I play them for fun, even if it's not the "best" choice.

[GoggleHead]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post158196

I think I'm going to have to refer to Red Mage as SpankWustler from now on.

[ronin sparthos]

I will point out that you're wrong in saying smn can dismiss and resummon whereas bst cannot, however - Leave will make a normal pet uncharm and a jug pet despawn, allowing the bst to charm/summon another. I couldn't make a judgement call on which type of pet is typically stronger, however, especially not outside abyssea; and while I enjoy both jobs, I rarely ever find myself thinking "man, bst or smn would be perfect for this" - instead I play them for fun, even if it's not the "best" choice.

What I meant by dismiss and resummon is that on BST typically if you use Call Beast and your pet runs into trouble you can't simply just Dismiss that pet and call a fresh one. You have a significant enough timer that bars you from chain throwing jugpets at a mob meaning during any function you are nudged towards keeping the pet healthy and enfeeble-free if you desire its damage. Im not going to even touch Charm because its pretty clear that SE has washed its hands of trying to make Charm BST viable at any endgame function.

The height of Charm BST was Attohwa Chasm throwing Antlions at Tiamat or Alastor Antlion.

Avatars can just be thrown at a mob repeatedly and when inflicted with status effects you can simply just dismiss and summon another. Perp cost is far more flexible than a rigid 4-5min timer on familiars.

[Mairja]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post158196

I think I'm going to have to refer to Red Mage as SpankWustler from now on.

Oh my god LOL!

GG, that is the funniest thing I have read on any forum for a long time! :D

[Dooom]

What I meant by dismiss and resummon is that on BST typically if you use Call Beast and your pet runs into trouble you can't simply just Dismiss that pet and call a fresh one.

Oh, I absolutely agree with this, and the rest of your post.

edit - though I will say that Reward is wonderful, even if it doesn't solve the issues discussed here. Picking between AF and Relic bodies for enfeeb removal is annoying, why not just have Relic remove what AF does as well as it's extras?

[GoggleHead]

This just in: melee RDMs refuse to shut the hell up because they want BLU's mechanics while having the aesthetics of the pimp hat.

FML

[ronin sparthos]

Oh, I absolutely agree with this, and the rest of your post.

edit - though I will say that Reward is wonderful, even if it doesn't solve the issues discussed here. Picking between AF and Relic bodies for enfeeb removal is annoying, why not just have Relic remove what AF does as well as it's extras?

SE needs to retool these:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Pet_Roborant

They'd fix the problem of status removal and stack to 99. The only problem is that you currently have to use them via the Reward timer meaning they aren't going to get much use.

If they were usable like Dawn Mulsum then one issue would be taken care of.

[Cymmina]

PUP while getting buffed as a DD winds up losing alot of attack rounds to putting up maneuvers in order to keep the automaton useful. Again my argument here is that DD are a dime a dozen and PUP is currently like a MNK with an ineffective pet. The robot just can't keep up when DD are buffed, suffers from being shutdown by AOEs and while it can be brought back easily through DEA cannot take much punishment and is handcuffed by a terrible AI system that removes alot of the practical applications automatons like the Soulsoother could have had.

-snip-

Opponents pose that PUP was designed to be full-on DD and that the DD frames can currently hold their own when combined with the masters damage to be a potent enough combo in the right hands. Largely I hear the reason PUP isn't liked has to do with the notion that individuals do not play it correctly.

I find that hard to believe, with all the skilled players who have graced XI but has anyone done any experiments for or against this claim? Has anyone ever parsed how BST + pet or PUP + pet stack up against our typical go-to DD?

Edit: Outside Abyssea*

PUP was good in sync parties at specific levels when DDs didn't have their good WS/JA/gear available yet. Keep in mind that these people didn't know they were being parsed, so they probably weren't performing their best. None of them have proper support (2 of them have a COR, and one of the rolls is COR roll) and are likely skimping on food.

A 37 sync party on Colibri with a Gkatana SAM (Speq), DRG (Spiro), a BST (Tnk) with HareFamiliar, a NIN (Tiggo), and I think a COR (Ekko).

Damage Summary
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg
Ekko                      3269     2.28 %         223        2595           0         451           0          0
Mercilessturtle          13914     9.72 %       10845           0           0        3069           0          0
Speq                     30604    21.38 %       22351         331           0        7922           0          0
Spiro                    35607    24.87 %       23863           0        4596        7148           0          0
Tiggobittys              13866     9.68 %       11994           0           0        1872           0          0
Tnk                       8592     6.00 %        7436           0           0        1156           0          0
Bobeche                  22115    15.45 %        4917       12194           0        5004           0          0
HareFamiliar             12580     8.79 %       10701           0        1879           0           0          0
Max                       1866     1.30 %        1409           0         457           0           0          0
SC: Detonation              18     0.01 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Distortion             178     0.12 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Liquefaction           322     0.22 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Scission               243     0.17 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
Total                   143174   100.00 %       93739       15120        6932       26622           0          0

Bird maze, synced to maybe 65ish (Penta Thrust and Guillotine are being used here)? Zillion (DRG/MNK with super shit gear), Balivia (DRG/SAM), Brennan and Lupan are DRK. Birdbanes may have been an option at this point, can't remember if he had them or not.

Damage Summary
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg
Balivia                  19443    24.51 %        9793           0        2139        7511           0          0
Brennan                   9920    12.51 %        5182           0           0        4729           9          0
Frenzy                     254     0.32 %         195           0           0           0          59          0
Lupan                    10867    13.70 %        5976           0          18        4585         288          0
Mercilessturtle           8128    10.25 %        6542           0           0        1586           0          0
Zillion                  12990    16.38 %        6261           0        1896        4535           0        298
Bobeche                   9384    11.83 %        3596        2374           0        3414           0          0
Cerulean                  3877     4.89 %        2575           0        1302           0           0          0
Max                       3379     4.26 %        2902           0         477           0           0          0
SC: Compression            539     0.68 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Impaction              506     0.64 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Liquefaction            37     0.05 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
Total                    79324   100.00 %       43022        2374        5832       26360         356        298

Lesser Colibri, level 59. PLD (Alkandros), RNG (Rellik), COR (Weshreturn), DRG (Yuchira). Almost positive Birdbanes are used in this parse. Sharpshot now has Daze and did use it most of the time.

Damage Summary
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg
Alkandros                11089     6.51 %        9756           0          68        1265           0          0
Anarkrist                  155     0.09 %           0           0           0           0         155          0
Mercilessturtle          26960    15.84 %       20904           0           0        6056           0          0
Rellik                   50947    29.93 %         376       27829        3013       19716           0         13
Weshreturn                8159     4.79 %         756        3783           0        3620           0          0
Yuchira                  35906    21.09 %       19997           0        3129       12780           0          0
Bobeche                  25526    15.00 %        9317        6681           0        9528           0          0
Lumiere                   8519     5.00 %        6250           0        2269           0           0          0
SC: Compression            291     0.17 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Detonation              12     0.01 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Impaction              135     0.08 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Liquefaction           208     0.12 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Reverberation          677     0.40 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Scission                 8     0.00 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
SC: Transfixion           1620     0.95 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
Total                   170212   100.00 %       67356       38293        8479       52965         155         13

At the 75 cap, PUP was a loljob because it had shitty gear options (barring Usukane) and it didn't get any good offensive JAs, so it starts falling behind all of the other DDs. The gear options at 76+ are better, but still not as good as what's available to other jobs.

When Merc points out how weak PUP is as a DD, he always gets the "then you're obviously a shitty PUP" response thrown at his face. Considering how much effort he has put into his gear (eg. dropping 2M on a Vellaunus' Mantle) and how aggressively he plays, I know it's complete horse shit. No matter how much he loves PUP, he knows it's behind all of the "real" DDs, but above melee mages. The auto just doesn't keep up with the master like it used to and the gap between "real DD" and the master is a lot bigger than it used to be.

[Dooom]

SE needs to retool these:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Pet_Roborant

They'd fix the problem of status removal and stack to 99. The only problem is that you currently have to use them via the Reward timer meaning they aren't going to get much use.

If they were usable like Dawn Mulsum then one issue would be taken care of.

Not just the Reward timer issue, but also "Stay only" if pretty damn dumb

[ronin sparthos]

These parses confirm my own personal experiences leveling a well geared PUP pre-Abyssea.

At Eron Colibri/Ladybugs you stood a good chance of being top dog due to the automaton being powerful at low levels and most DD missing the tools that make them what they are at the level cap. 60+ was when the job started to nosedive with all the DD getting their signature weaponskills that close the gap the automaton previously held open for you.

It did help that Colibri/Ladybug had no AOEs which would work negatively for the PUP. Oh those wonderful days of spam Repairing like a bitch @Imps are coming back to me....

Curious to see what a level 90 PUP parse would look like. Id predict a wide gap between master and pet though the exercise would be purely academic.

@Dooom Yeah, the stay only is pretty silly. It's like SE was intentionally attempting to make the item useless upon release.

[Yugl]

That's not surprising since that seems to be the case with pet DDs in general. I remember claims that DRG started off as a top tier DD until LV30 when people get their new JA/sub JAs. Pets just have so much issue scaling with the rest of the crowd.

[Karbuncle]

Should just let Pets get buffs like March, Haste, etc... Wont super fix it but it'd go a long way in helping pet jobs.

[GoggleHead]

Just give all pet jobs a trait that auto-transfers the owner's buffs to the pet. I'm sorry but there's no way in hell I'm adding pets to a haste cycle.

[Byrthnoth]

It would be a really big boost, but probably not overpowering.

[Karbuncle]

Just give all pet jobs a trait that auto-transfers the owner's buffs to the pet. I'm sorry but there's no way in hell I'm adding pets to a haste cycle.

A Passive job trait that gave Owners buffs to the pets? not a bad idea, But it would create oddities with things like Avatar's Favor, Then again there could just be a list of abilities that dont transfer.

Still that would shit all up and down Empathy lol

[Cymmina]

That's not surprising since that seems to be the case with pet DDs in general. I remember claims that DRG started off as a top tier DD until LV30 when people get their new JA/sub JAs. Pets just have so much issue scaling with the rest of the crowd.

DRG also has one of the best early WS available (Double Thrust).

[ronin sparthos]

SE seems to be deathly afraid of the concept of pets being powerhouses because what I think they fear is the dynamic of the game shifting to a whole bunch of buffed BST pets steamrolling everything like the petburned Vrtra or Hydras.

It's a stupid fear however given they seem to forget their taking XI into the direction of hitting procs in order to get drops.

BST however could definitely use a JA that at the least buffs the pet with some ATT/ACC/Haste. Pet: acc/att/haste gear is already in short supply to begin with.

[Karbuncle]

They could just release a "Breeder's Set" With a bunch of "Pet: xxx buff" stats... Maybe throw in some Perp cost and Reward Recast/Call Beast recast/Repair Effect on it for good measure.

Edit: Also you guys should totally go to my RDM Magic thread use it as a sanctum from Melee! They have their Melee thread, We have our Mage thread.

[Supersun]

Knowing SE though they'd do stuff like tag on Acc -100 onto it as well.