The Official Forums II: Out Here Grindin'

[kamugi]

girls don't exist on ffxi or the internet, quit fibbing to everyone and trying to pose as a girl!

[Deader2818]

I think discussing anything with Leonlionheart is pointless as he seems to not really understand what we are trying to say, and is stucking thinkg inside abyssea only and that we will never leave abyssea.

[scaevola]

He's putting it poorly by continuing to reference Abyssea, but he and I basically have the same fundamental argument: a job with a lot of survivability shouldn't be able to do as much damage as a job without anywhere near as much. If NINs have consistent problems gaining enmity fast enough, there are ways to adjust their enmity gain without giving them more damage (which is why NIN/DRK was so great), as well as, I would add, the simple, immediate solution of using your Token Treasure Hunter Thief for its intended purpose.

[Deader2818]

I dont understand how wanting to be within 20% of top tier DDs, is doing as much damage as them.

[scaevola]

If top-tier DDs do 100% of their potential damage, they die.


Or they would, if we weren't playing a game with several viable healers, one of which happens to be literally twice as effective as any of the others.

[Khajit]

Hate generation equaling about 1k damage worth of hate on average once a minute surely is the key to making jobs tank.

[scaevola]

Until such a time as SE makes the enmity cap a little higher I can't see the harm in it.

[kamugi]

If top-tier DDs do 100% of their potential damage, they die.

Cause this is how the game should work
Everyone should be forced to hold back, and you should spend twice as much time killing something as you really need to.

How about we just let tanks tank regardless of whether or not DDs go all out, then we can kill things faster and the game will be more fun because as a DD, you wont have to stand to the side half of every fight thinking to yourself, "Damn, I wish I could fight that that."

EDIT:: Just for reference, this is how it works inside abyssea if your ninja isn't crap. The Ukon WAR I play with never takes off hasso inside abyssea, and he has the best gear available, and tries his hardest to as much damage as he can. And he very rarely gets hate at all ever, unless I turn around and let him (which is what we do with chloris's hundred fists, and that's about it, I play my WHM and help spam cure hm and it dies so fast its lol.)

[scaevola]

How about we just let tanks tank regardless of whether or not DDs go all out, then we can kill things faster and the game will be more fun because as a DD, you wont have to stand to the side half of every fight thinking to yourself, "Damn, I wish I could fight that that."

So, you think FFXI is currently too difficult and should be easier?

I mean, if you've got 8 DDs that all do identical damage and one of them is a Ninja who is capable of tanking easily, the solution is not to let him tank; the solution is to bring 8 ninjas

[kamugi]

So, you think FFXI is currently too difficult and should be easier?

I think ninja needs a damage increase, so that outside abyssea it can tank stuff that cons higher then even match.
Game was never hard, just stupid in some respects.

[scaevola]

I think ninja needs a damage increase, so that outside abyssea it can tank stuff that cons higher then even match.
Game was never hard, just stupid in some respects.

You still haven't explained why that needs to be a damage increase and not an enmity increase through some other means, like a heavy increase to Ninjutsu enmity or an upward adjustment of Yonin's +enmity to further offset the accuracy loss.* I could get behind either of those.




*for the record, just imo but I've always thought the +/- enmity on Yonin and Innin was meant to make sure the enmity you gained as a NIN was relatively constant despite the effects of those abilities on your damage output, not an absolute increase or decrease in your enmity gain (though obviously you could game it that way if you wanted to).

[kamugi]

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/thfiswin.jpg

Melees who don't sub THF suck, you heard it here first.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post119952

You still haven't explained why that needs to be a damage increase and not an enmity increase through some other means, like a heavy increase to Ninjutsu enmity or an upward adjustment of Yonin's +enmity to further offset the accuracy loss.* I could get behind either of those.

*for the record, just imo but I've always thought the +/- enmity on Yonin and Innin was meant to make sure the enmity you gained as a NIN was relatively constant despite the effects of those abilities on your damage output, not an absolute increase or decrease in your enmity gain (though obviously you could game it that way if you wanted to).

If you bothered to read the original post I outlined it there. Ninja is the DD tank, so it tanks and does damage, that's the idea behind the job. Everything else it does is a component of this. From migawari and aishai which makes you not die, to Hojo and kurayami and other spells, which make mobs take your shadows less often. Even yonin is obviously intended to make you tank better, while innin was intended to increase your damage to the point it is respectable while letting you pretend to be a DD and not get hate. Unfortunately neither of these JAs are useful.

There's also a problem with increasing ninjutsu spell enmity. If you increase it enough where ninjas could use it to keep hate off good melees, they'll end up with higher enmity generation then paladins on very high tier mobs, which is what SE does not want and would not add. Plus it would make you spend to much gil on keeping hate, which isn't fun all by itself.

[Byrthnoth]

I think you're misinterpretting what Leon is saying there. He's saying you either suck as a DD and can't pull hate because you suck, or you suck because you sub THF.

Also, keep the stupid discussions on the forum designed for stupid stuff prz

[kamugi]

I think you're misinterpretting what Leon is saying there. He's saying you either suck as a DD and can't pull hate because you suck, or you suck because you sub THF.

Also, keep the stupid discussions on the forum designed for stupid stuff prz

I take the / after sucking as being a break in ideas, like inserting the word 'or' there.

[Byrthnoth]

I also see it as a break in ideas:

1) Those jobs will always take damage if they don't suck.

2)Those jobs will always take damage if they are not using /THF and thusly sucking. <-- this one is confusing, but it's the same as saying:
Those jobs will always take damage unless they /THF and thus suck

[kamugi]

The official forums: BG Edition III: I write ambiguously so you can take what I say either way and I am never wrong

[grevenilvec75]

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1457/pchan.jpg

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post118195

You heard it here first guys: WS gear is useless in abyssea.

I'd heard the rumors about Pchan, but I honestly had no idea how retarded that guy actually is.

[Theraven]

I'd heard the rumors about Pchan, but I honestly had no idea how retarded that guy actually is.

If you joined in 2008 you've had plenty of opportunities to see his retardation firsthand

[Eeeks]

I saw something this morning that made me smile. Almost as much as prodding Starcade to launch into a multi-paragraph rant whcih ended in him telling me to fuck off.

It's this thread: gobbiebag XI/XII/XIII/XIV/XVI

We're having an effect:

http://i52.tinypic.com/211mg5d.jpg

In essence, Camate agrees with many comments in the thread and kindly asks the OP to Suck Less.

(At least that's how I read it. I did not sleep well and I'm very tired. >.<)

[scaevola]

Ninja is the DD tank, so it tanks and does damage, that's the idea behind the job.

EDIT: There's a better way to articulate what a retarded statement this is but I'm on my way to work, so I guess watch this space if you care?