The Official Forums II: Out Here Grindin'

[Neisan]

I don't know, I used to be more bitter about it (Rdm melee capabilities/utility in general), but I thought I came to terms with it - and if they buff either, woohoo, all the sets and gear I collected for it would see more use. If not, nothing's really changed, I'll keep using it for the same things I have before. I'm not opposed to a buff in that direction, I simply don't see the need for it at this point in time. When I first saw the parses I thought things was off but didn't look deeper since I didn't play the other jobs in question, now that I know more I see there's a bunch of flaws in his testing. I'm all for someone showing it can be done but skewering things in your favour isn't helping your position, it just undermines it.

[GoggleHead]

Is it really that hard to grasp?

For as much as some here want to crusade about spreading knowledge, they certainly go about it the dumbest ways possible. Immediately running in all aggressive and hostile automatically puts up the target's defenses where, if otherwise reasonable people, they'll certainly not want to give the time of day to someone who comes in swinging, often unprovoked.

Being nice gets you nowhere with idiots. Might as well skip straight to the inevitable browbeating and tears that follow.

[Karbuncle]

Maybe I'm just being an idealist, but modded properly, there should be fewer assholes than elsewhere. So, on some level, that speaks of a base ideology where being a dick is okay... as long as you know what 2+2 is. Frankly, I can't fault anyone for not knowing the intricate ins and outs of the game, especially if new. It's not like the game itself throws web sites at you to browse for knowledge, and while we might think a "good player" will poke around and ask people, I think some grossly underestimate the casual who just logs on, does some stuff, logs off, then gets on with their life.

I don't have a problem with that type of casual, I don't think anyone really here does.

Its the people who are vehemently retarded and refuse to ever learn or accept that they are wrong, even when confronted with evidence/etc.

Or people like Dallas, Who talk big and throw out numbers/parses, yet never provide proof and claim "We're simply not worth his time to prove it to us" or something similar.

The only people who really get torched/banned quickly are those who make a question that can go in RQT or What's Better, then get responses saying to go to those threads, and reply in a rage-filled Nerd-rant about how "EVERYONES RIGHT BG IS ELITISTSZ".

But again i say, Its like this on all forums. all of them. I read Minecraft and Megaman forums that make BG look tame.

[arus2001]

Being nice gets you nowhere with idiots. Might as well skip straight to the inevitable browbeating and tears that follow.

That mindset makes you a douche. Just drop your info bomb and walk away. If they refuse to take to it, their loss. It's not like these people are in all your parties, consist the entirety of your LS, or are truly the majority of FFXI.

The only people who really get torched/banned quickly are those who make a question that can go in RQT or What's Better, then get responses saying to go to those threads, and reply in a rage-filled Nerd-rant about how "EVERYONES RIGHT BG IS ELITISTSZ".

Rumors, stigma, stereotypes or whatever start somewhere. A single isolated incident doesn't exactly lead to a reputation. Do it enough, however, and yeah... ya get what ya get. Sure, the BG of yesteryear might be different than the one of today, but it's still got issues.

[Cail]

I've made topics before and got told RQT you moron. Some people need to get thicker skin and not cry every 5 secs

[Karbuncle]

Rumors, stigma, stereotypes or whatever start somewhere. A single isolated incident doesn't exactly lead to a reputation. Do it enough, however, and yeah... ya get what ya get. Sure, the BG of yesteryear might be different than the one of today, but it's still got issues.

The same people you are trying to defend (Or w/e you're doing) are the same people who will likely never believe BG is worth a second chance.

BG of yesteryear was far far far far...

Spoiler: show

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worse than the BG of today. BG today is a lot more tame, and more information comes because of it. people like Kirschy, Byrth, and etc. a lot has changed over time and the people in question (at least the ones Im talking about) are really the type who spread their misinformation like fact and other new players assume the worst of BG still.

I very very rarely see any real hard-core flamming here, if ever, if there is its usually between BG regulars, or rarely some guy defending himself in a gimp thread while looking bad, or throwing out the RL card.

I just don't see a lot wrong with BG Today, In terms of FFXI related content. Its changed a lot for the better.

Edit:Truthfully even this topic is rather tame. Its no worse or better than the Gimp thread, or Random Fail. You don't have to read those forums to be a member of BG though, so those who dont agree with it aren't inclined to go there.

The only type of people who have to fear BG are those who are wrong and refuse to learn, those who are wrong and do learn are fine. I'm proof of that, when i first started on BG... i wasn't great, Now i at least try my damnedest to learn.

[Aksannyi]

A lot of that has to do with the fact that the FFXI population has shrunk as well. Less people posting overall = less assholes posting. I think some people are a lot more combative than necessary, but this is the internet, people need to stop being pussy babies.

[arus2001]

The same people you are trying to defend (Or w/e you're doing) are the same people who will likely never believe BG is worth a second chance.

This goes both ways, or perhaps more aptly, could be narrowed down into individuals. If you dive into the official boards expecting to find nothing but stupid, then of course you'll find some and just convince yourself that's the way it is. On the other end, you might get people asking for convenience tweaks, only to get some jump down their throats asking for EZ Mode, WoW, or whatever bullshit mentality rooted in Zilart-style mechanics.

I think on some level, this is just a symptom of an official board coming years, years, years too late. I imagine the game and community would be far different if SE hadn't kept its head in the sand for so long.

[GoggleHead]

That mindset makes you a douche. Just drop your info bomb and walk away. If they refuse to take to it, their loss. It's not like these people are in all your parties, consist the entirety of your LS, or are truly the majority of FFXI.

Actually they are. I spent nearly two years trying to be the nice guy and it got me nowhere. So yeah, I'm done with that. I gave it an honest effort and got rewarded with nothing but a headache and a renewed hatred for my fellow man.

[Karbuncle]

This goes both ways, or perhaps more aptly, could be narrowed down into individuals. If you dive into the official boards expecting to find nothing but stupid, then of course you'll find some and just convince yourself that's the way it is. On the other end, you might get people asking for convenience tweaks, only to get some jump down their throats asking for EZ Mode, WoW, or whatever bullshit mentality rooted in Zilart-style mechanics.

I think on some level, this is just a symptom of an official board coming years, years, years too late. I imagine the game and community would be far different if SE hadn't kept its head in the sand for so long.

I don't really expect to find stupid there, I browse there a lot looking for decent ideas, Its just obvious there are a lot of uninformed/bad posters there. But theres also a lot of better ones. It doesn't help the fact that a lot of the more informed posters are also posters here...

either way, to the Bolded part, I don't think anyone from BG has gone into threads like that and cried "making game too easy", i know myself i have defended/voted for changes to things like the UI/minor tweaks to make the game more user friendly. I don't feel we need things like "Flying mounts" However.

Some of the ideas aren't inherently bad (Like say, Hordecores Mini-map/quest tracker thread), but the poster of the thread itself is an obvious retard-troll. Either way i do give even those threads a chance (and i quite liked the idea of a Mini-map... alot/all other MMO type games have one).

Maybe I just dont recognize a lot of BG posters, But some of the situations you describe i don't see BG posters "fulfilling" over on the Official forums.

Edit: Quoting myself

Its just obvious there are a lot of uninformed/bad posters there

To add to this. I don't insult/belittle them. I might make a small sarcastic "wat", but i'll always try to educate/correct. i slip up as I'm only human, But i never ever condemn someone whos willing to learn. I dont think anyone here does either, Only those who refuse to learn. (There is some petty shit around here i wont deny this place is a god-haven, Just that those of us here who posts on the Official forums generally try to correct/educate and not be petty, at least i do)

[grevenilvec75]

Thread got deleted.

[Cail]

Thread got deleted.

Reverse forum thread?

[Karbuncle]

Reverse forum thread?

yah. Clearly report spam automated Delete System got working.

[kamugi]

wall-o-text

Whenever you make these wall of text posts where everyone should be happy and get along and live in hippie communes with everyone else peacefully it kind of makes me want to scream and gouge my eyes out. You're almost as bad as the melee SMNs and RDMs, all you need to do is say it's their character and they can play how they want and you're there.

[Mrbeansman]

When people say that we are a bunch of math nerds they deserve the butt rape they get by some of us so called BG poopie heads. People need to learn that they are arguing that math is irrelevant in a game that works on mathematical algorithms

[arus2001]

Whenever you make these wall of text posts where everyone should be happy and get along and live in hippie communes with everyone else peacefully it kind of makes me want to scream and gouge my eyes out. You're almost as bad as the melee SMNs and RDMs, all you need to do is say it's their character and they can play how they want and you're there.

I never said you had to be happy, hold hands, and sing cumbaya, but if you're gonna act like a dick, don't be surprised when someone calls you out on it. Which on some level, "OMG THOSE BG BASTARDS!" is doing such and you likely earn the distinction by frequenting this very thread.

[Churchill]

Maybe that's where we are in disagreement. I don't think anyone cares if they are called a math nerd or a dick or an elitist - these are things that for the most part could be considered true or are true.

It's just funny for us to point out that it happened - gimps gon' gimp. When someone claims "oh here come the BG hordes" when there are a few of us in a topic arguing points it's often the first of many steps that person will take to backpedal their argument in which case a few pages later we're arguing something completely different. We know what we're saying falls on deaf ears, but we say it anyway. We know what we're saying is going to get us called elitists, but we say it anyway.

What we're saying and doing, for the most part, is helpful. It's only construed as what it is because these people are retarded and they are the kind of people who think having a V.Belt and a Justice Torque at Lv75 was "super pimped out" and "irrelevant to our testing".

We don't need to stop pressing our points if we don't want to because the image we are presenting to a logical human being is one of a more knowledgeable and somewhat jaded person. If there is a problem with that, then some vagina needs to get a sand cleaning.

Edit: Do I troll? Yep. I troll here as well. Some questions reveal a level of ignorance/arrogance not deserving of a human response. To troll is delicious.

[arus2001]

Not much you can do about conflicting opinions and perceptions of reasonable expectation. If the argument is Haste vs. other shit, then whip up the numbers for both scenarios, then as I said, leave it and move on. Adopting it as some personal crusade makes you fundamentally no better than the RDM melee enthusiasts it's trendy to snipe. Some will doubt, yes. It's unlikely anyone will ever play in the perfect test tube scenario, yes. However, just because you don't get through to THAT person doesn't mean someone else lurking doesn't pick up on it. By the point shit evolves into multi-page affairs, it's more than likely a grudge at that point. Get over it and just enjoy the game with your friends.

[Lyall]

Not much you can do about conflicting opinions and perceptions of reasonable expectation. If the argument is Haste vs. other shit, then whip up the numbers for both scenarios, then as I said, leave it and move on. Adopting it as some personal crusade makes you fundamentally no better than the RDM melee enthusiasts it's trendy to snipe. Some will doubt, yes. It's unlikely anyone will ever play in the perfect test tube scenario, yes. However, just because you don't get through to THAT person doesn't mean someone else lurking doesn't pick up on it. By the point shit evolves into multi-page affairs, it's more than likely a grudge at that point. Get over it and just enjoy the game with your friends.

I wish it was that easy. There's an extremely well-written thread about the benefits of haste, why haste is good, how it performs mathematically and the entire rundown of why you want it. Naturebeckles shat the thread up by then going in and saying "Well this is all elitist math, no one has to be a haste whore and you can do whatever you want."

That is not acceptable because we have to share this game. I mentioned a day ago in this thread that some people had posted on the WAR forum wanting to trade the movement speed penalty on Retaliation for Crit Rate down or Attack down. This is not acceptable (to me, anyway) because sacrificing performance for convenience should never be a possibility.

It isn't as simple as "go enjoy the game with your friends" either because I would need more hands to count how many times a full-pink solo ninja without procs has held Guk for 25 minutes, or watching entire alliances hold Briareus before there were multiple pops. I'd be able to enjoy my game a lot more with my friends if I didn't have to sit behind a bunch of idiots who think it's fine to play with a completely aesthetic method in a game driven by hard math.

[arus2001]

Hey, I hate the Guku bottleneck, too, but in some cases it's more of misplacing hate on the player rather than the game itself. At least Mr. Sucky NIN is presumably trying for a Kannagi to better himself, and there could be worse than full Aurore to wear. I just try to keep the perspective that not everyone has an awesome LS or reliable friends to shower them with everything in an instant.