Neo-Dynamis Changes

[Jem]

Yes it is luck based in the sense he can sometimes go 'fuck you'. However, the way you talk you would think it's a common occurrence. It is not. Quick resummons are usually far more of a problem than Tera Slash/Implosion anyway (you know the ones where he decides to resummon at under 10% even though your killspeed is no slower than usual)

For example on Monday we got 16 Marrows with zero wipes. In all those fights there was zero DD deaths and maybe 6-8 combined support job deaths (sometimes a SMN on split).

Our win percentage over the last 3 months ish is over 90%. Sure some days he is a dick and we'll wipe 2-3 times out of 8-12. But on the flipside, we clean sweep them with no wipes more often than we have runs with wipes.

Rough example of time farming/set killed for us (we go 3 days a week)

Sat: Farmed 11 sets (Odious + Bijous) and popped 5-6 Odious NM's [9 players + 2 mules]
Sun: Killed all NM's + 2 ADL's (could have done more but only took 2 SMN's) [10 players + 2 mules]
Mon: Killed 11 ADL's (2 excess popsets from previous cycles) + some stray NM's from pop holders who couldn't make Sun. Exited with ~10 mins left [13 players + 2 mules]

In total we got 18 Marrows over 3 days (zero wipes / melee deaths, 5 double drops).

EDIT: I don't go with Kalasin's group for the record in case it came across like that

[NynJa]

This may be a question of semantics, but 13 kills in 3 days a significant difference than "6 ADLs every day", especially since you arent doing ADL daily.

[Mahoro]

"6 ADL per day, every day" is essentially farming up 24 Odious pops and 6 Bijous, and then killing 24 HQ NM's, 6 DL's, and 6 ADL's in 2 hours. If that is his true average instead of forum bluster, and if they indeed do it every day as advertised, I think there are some sweatshops out there that have less demanding requirements o-O.

[Byrthnoth]

If they actually take a full alliance and are smart about it, I could see farming 18 popsets one day, converting 18 popsets the next day, and popping 18 popsets the third day for 6 ADLs per day average.

[Mahoro]

If it is "12+mules" as Keseasura said, and assuming there are enough mules to round out the ally, then perhaps I could see it. I think I was more staggered by the enormity of meeting that quota "every day," if that means 6-7 days a week.

[NynJa]

If they actually take a full alliance and are smart about it, I could see farming 18 popsets one day, converting 18 popsets the next day, and popping 18 popsets the third day for 6 ADLs per day average.

But he got VERY offended at my comment of "20 unique players every day", which hints to it not being a full alliance, or so it seems.

[Kalasin]

THF+SMN on Bijou NMs(smn a mule to support if not enough people), DDx2 SCH THF on pop item farming(thf can be mule if not enough people), DDx3 WHM BRD COR on NMs(again, cor can be a mule if not enough people), then add in smn mules and a second cor depending on how many people are on. How are that 20 people + mules? Please explain, because instead of everyone doing the same thing at once, we simply split up to be more efficent. Essentially, this would require 10 people and a few mules to do. And yes, since the Pop item group farms from enter to ADL time, we always exit with enough Pop items to start popping NMs right away every run, that's how we can do 6 ADL every day.

And there is no slaving involved as we don't upgrade relics for certain people but payout everyone with a marrow every 3rd attend, while allowing us to do plenty of "free paid days" as well because of the extra stock of marrows.

[Jem]

This may be a question of semantics, but 13 kills in 3 days a significant difference than "6 ADLs every day", especially since you arent doing ADL daily.

I'm not in Kese's group so no we do not do 6 ADL's every run and we do not do Dyna every day. Nor did I ever try portray it as such.

The point of my post was to say ADL is nowhere near as luck-based as you would have people believe. From how you portray it you would think it's a coin flip as to whether it screws you. When in reality you get bad luck maybe 1 in every 12-15 pops.

I also have no doubts over whether Kese's group can manage 6 ADL's a day. If we managed to do 4.33 ADL's a run with 9/10/13 (and realistically we didn't need 13, that's just what showed up. We'd have managed the same with the 9-10 + mules). It isn't a stretch to believe they can manage 6 per run with 12 + mules especially as we could be more efficient if we bothered to split up on Odious NM kills.

EDIT: Efficiency would increase a lot if you left a few people at Odious ???'s popping/killing as you farmed instead of farming everything then popping all at once like we do and wasting 30+ mins waiting on ??? repops every run (plus running between them as a group. Horn > Blood > Pen is a huge timesink)

[NynJa]

I'm not in Kese's group so no we do not do 6 ADL's every run and we do not do Dyna every day. Nor did I ever try portray it as such.

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I wasnt saying anything of the such, but just saying that your 3 day schedule which was 13 ADL's over a span of 3 days is a significant difference over Kalasin's notion of "6 ADLS every day".

[Kalasin]

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I wasnt saying anything of the such, but just saying that your 3 day schedule which was 13 ADL's over a span of 3 days is a significant difference over Kalasin's notion of "6 ADLS every day".

Refer to my last post and say it's not possible again.

[Jem]

I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I wasnt saying anything of the such, but just saying that your 3 day schedule which was 13 ADL's over a span of 3 days is a significant difference over Kalasin's notion of "6 ADLS every day".

We take 25% less people than them and are inefficient with our popping (as detailed previously). They only need a 1.67 Marrow improvement on us with 25% more players + presumably more mules + increased efficiency in popping/from going 7 days a week to our 3. Very plausible imo.

[NynJa]

Presuming you have all the Odious items pre-farmed, and all your bijous pre-farmed, and you have your Odious NM group head straight to their NM's while everyone else heads to their respective areas (since this ones the whole timeline hinges on):
2 minutes to get to rdm/brd NM, 6 kills at 1 minute per, 5 minutes lost waiting on ??? repop (13 minutes)
1 minute to relocate to bst NM, 6 kills at 1 minute per, 5 minutes lost waiting on ??? repop (12 minutes, 25 minutes in)
2 minutes to relocate to thf NM, 6 kills at 1.5 minutes per (presuming 1 PD per fight), 5 minutes waiting on repop (16 minutes, 41 minutes in)
2 minutes to relocate to pld NM, 6 kills at 2 min per (invincible, cures, etc), 5 minutes on repop (19 minutes, 60 minutes in)
3 minutes to relocate to DL, 11 minutes guaranteed lost waiting on ??? repop (74 minutes, 46 to jerk around with party setups and pre-buffs for ADL's)


If you have those Odious Items and Bijous pre-farmed, the numbers say is very possible to do 6 ADL's. If you dont have those Odious items pre-farmed, I'm VERY VERY skeptical about you being able to do 6 ADL's in 1 run from scratch. Presuming you spend the last 30 minutes of the run on DL/ADL, your Odious pop item group has 90 minutes to farm up 6 of the 4 Odious items, with a group that seems to be able to kill one every ~40 seconds (some sooner, some take longer due to invin/pd/possible bene...). I cant rely on ffxidb for Odious drop rates since the EP and DC share the same name, my experiences seem to hint towards a 25% drop rate, so you'd get an Odious item every 2 1/2 minutes, which would take about an hour to get your next-day quota (if you're not getting unlucky, aka: 9 Odious Bloods, but only 2 Odious Pens) Also, being able to say "our THF+SMN duo can pop and kill 6+ NQ NM's in an hour and a half" (I threw in the hour and a half, because once again, your private strategy is very private and secret, I dont know how you do things) seems laughable. Not that the concept isnt there, just relying on any form of a lottery spawn with a 60% drop rate as something you can claim to 100% certainty seems absurd. For all I know, thats THF+SMN slave does nothing for 2 hours except try to pop NM's and get bijous for the following run.


tl;dr: if you've got your pop items pre-farmed, 6/day is very possible, if you dont, you're blowing smoke.

[Raffi_XI]

All this bickering should be solved with live streaming! (FFXI needs more of this)

[Taint]

Presuming you have all the Odious items pre-farmed, and all your bijous pre-farmed, and you have your Odious NM group head straight to their NM's while everyone else heads to their respective areas (since this ones the whole timeline hinges on):
2 minutes to get to rdm/brd NM, 6 kills at 1 minute per, 5 minutes lost waiting on ??? repop (13 minutes)
1 minute to relocate to bst NM, 6 kills at 1 minute per, 5 minutes lost waiting on ??? repop (12 minutes, 25 minutes in)
2 minutes to relocate to thf NM, 6 kills at 1.5 minutes per (presuming 1 PD per fight), 5 minutes waiting on repop (16 minutes, 41 minutes in)
2 minutes to relocate to pld NM, 6 kills at 2 min per (invincible, cures, etc), 5 minutes on repop (19 minutes, 60 minutes in)
3 minutes to relocate to DL, 11 minutes guaranteed lost waiting on ??? repop (74 minutes, 46 to jerk around with party setups and pre-buffs for ADL's)


If you have those Odious Items and Bijous pre-farmed, the numbers say is very possible to do 6 ADL's. If you dont have those Odious items pre-farmed, I'm VERY VERY skeptical about you being able to do 6 ADL's in 1 run from scratch. Presuming you spend the last 30 minutes of the run on DL/ADL, your Odious pop item group has 90 minutes to farm up 6 of the 4 Odious items, with a group that seems to be able to kill one every ~40 seconds (some sooner, some take longer due to invin/pd/possible bene...). I cant rely on ffxidb for Odious drop rates since the EP and DC share the same name, my experiences seem to hint towards a 25% drop rate, so you'd get an Odious item every 2 1/2 minutes, which would take about an hour to get your next-day quota (if you're not getting unlucky, aka: 9 Odious Bloods, but only 2 Odious Pens) Also, being able to say "our THF+SMN duo can pop and kill 6+ NQ NM's in an hour and a half" (I threw in the hour and a half, because once again, your private strategy is very private and secret, I dont know how you do things) seems laughable. Not that the concept isnt there, just relying on any form of a lottery spawn with a 60% drop rate as something you can claim to 100% certainty seems absurd. For all I know, thats THF+SMN slave does nothing for 2 hours except try to pop NM's and get bijous for the following run.


tl;dr: if you've got your pop items pre-farmed, 6/day is very possible, if you dont, you're blowing smoke.

You forgot to factor in its a luck based fight and can't be done without PD.

[pugnax179]

Presuming you have all the Odious items pre-farmed, and all your bijous pre-farmed, and you have your Odious NM group head straight to their NM's while everyone else heads to their respective areas (since this ones the whole timeline hinges on):
2 minutes to get to rdm/brd NM, 6 kills at 1 minute per, 5 minutes lost waiting on ??? repop (13 minutes)
1 minute to relocate to bst NM, 6 kills at 1 minute per, 5 minutes lost waiting on ??? repop (12 minutes, 25 minutes in)
2 minutes to relocate to thf NM, 6 kills at 1.5 minutes per (presuming 1 PD per fight), 5 minutes waiting on repop (16 minutes, 41 minutes in)
2 minutes to relocate to pld NM, 6 kills at 2 min per (invincible, cures, etc), 5 minutes on repop (19 minutes, 60 minutes in)
3 minutes to relocate to DL, 11 minutes guaranteed lost waiting on ??? repop (74 minutes, 46 to jerk around with party setups and pre-buffs for ADL's)


If you have those Odious Items and Bijous pre-farmed, the numbers say is very possible to do 6 ADL's. If you dont have those Odious items pre-farmed, I'm VERY VERY skeptical about you being able to do 6 ADL's in 1 run from scratch. Presuming you spend the last 30 minutes of the run on DL/ADL, your Odious pop item group has 90 minutes to farm up 6 of the 4 Odious items, with a group that seems to be able to kill one every ~40 seconds (some sooner, some take longer due to invin/pd/possible bene...). I cant rely on ffxidb for Odious drop rates since the EP and DC share the same name, my experiences seem to hint towards a 25% drop rate, so you'd get an Odious item every 2 1/2 minutes, which would take about an hour to get your next-day quota (if you're not getting unlucky, aka: 9 Odious Bloods, but only 2 Odious Pens) Also, being able to say "our THF+SMN duo can pop and kill 6+ NQ NM's in an hour and a half" (I threw in the hour and a half, because once again, your private strategy is very private and secret, I dont know how you do things) seems laughable. Not that the concept isnt there, just relying on any form of a lottery spawn with a 60% drop rate as something you can claim to 100% certainty seems absurd. For all I know, thats THF+SMN slave does nothing for 2 hours except try to pop NM's and get bijous for the following run.


tl;dr: if you've got your pop items pre-farmed, 6/day is very possible, if you dont, you're blowing smoke.

This is exactly how my ls does ADL nights and we do actually do 6 fights a night

[Jem]

You're assuming that they do 6 ADL's per day though. From how I read it, they average 6 kills per day. There's nothing stopping them farming 12 popsets in 1 run and then killing 12 ADL's next run.

Maybe something like (Assuming 12 people)

3-4 people farming Bijous
4-5 people farming Odious PI's at Horn/Skull area
4-5 people farming Odious PI's at Blood area

The Odious farmers can pop/kill those NM's where necessary whilst farming.

When we did 4-5 people at Bijous and 4-5 people at Odious items we managed to get 11 Bijous in 60 mins, 11 Odious sets in 90-100 mins (we managed 6 skulls after but I can't remember how much dicking around we did in between farming and then killing NM's)

So if you double the people farming Odious sets, you should be able to bring that down to under 60 mins. Then it's a case of can 4-5 people kill 24 NM's in 60 mins (Possibly backed up by Bijou people who won't need the full 2 hours to get 12 Bijous).

We managed 1 Skull/Horn/Blood/Pen/Bijou + 11 ADL's in 110 mins and were inefficient as we did 10 ADL's then ran to pop the NM's and then ran back to ADL. So killing 12 NQ DL's and 12 ADL's in a run certainly isn't an issue and you could possibly squeeze some extra Odious NM's if necessary.

[Kalasin]

THF+SMN on Bijou NMs(smn a mule to support if not enough people), DDx2 SCH THF on pop item farming(thf can be mule if not enough people), DDx3 WHM BRD COR on NMs(again, cor can be a mule if not enough people), then add in smn mules and a second cor depending on how many people are on. How are that 20 people + mules? Please explain, because instead of everyone doing the same thing at once, we simply split up to be more efficent. Essentially, this would require 10 people and a few mules to do. And yes, since the Pop item group farms from enter to ADL time, we always exit with enough Pop items to start popping NMs right away every run, that's how we can do 6 ADL every day.

And there is no slaving involved as we don't upgrade relics for certain people but payout everyone with a marrow every 3rd attend, while allowing us to do plenty of "free paid days" as well because of the extra stock of marrows.

Isn't that exactly what I said just before you posted it's only possible if we prefarm, Nynja?

And yes, if we have a bad day and run lower on time, we simply pop 3 or 4 ADL only and take the other 2-3 for the next day, and pop 8-9 that day, like it happened yesterday. We ran low on time, so we only popped 4 and took the 2 extra sets in today, so we are going to pop 8 ADL today. Should we run low on time, we will again take 2-3 sets for the next day until we have enough excess time to pop those. Shit's not hard to understand, and if you still wipe to ADL a lot, don't spread bullshit about it being a luck based fight, because it really isn't and he very rarely goes into his "fuck you" mode.

Edit: Popped and killed the 9 pops we had today. 6 of them were with PD, 3 of them without. The last one even used Terror after the first copy died(leaving the real one at 57%), and we still killed it with all DD alive. We had some minor luck because it didn't split again on us, but the first 2 didn't even attempt to Implosion because they were stun locked. Our melee simply know how to use PDT sets, maybe that's what you are missing. Is it still close to impossible without PD and a pure luck based fight?

[keseasura]

Isn't that exactly what I said just before you posted it's only possible if we prefarm, Nynja?

And yes, if we have a bad day and run lower on time, we simply pop 3 or 4 ADL only and take the other 2-3 for the next day, and pop 8-9 that day, like it happened yesterday. We ran low on time, so we only popped 4 and took the 2 extra sets in today, so we are going to pop 8 ADL today. Should we run low on time, we will again take 2-3 sets for the next day until we have enough excess time to pop those. Shit's not hard to understand, and if you still wipe to ADL a lot, don't spread bullshit about it being a luck based fight, because it really isn't and he very rarely goes into his "fuck you" mode.

Edit: Popped and killed the 9 pops we had today. 6 of them were with PD, 3 of them without. The last one even used Terror after the first copy died(leaving the real one at 57%), and we still killed it with all DD alive. We had some minor luck because it didn't split again on us, but the first 2 didn't even attempt to Implosion because they were stun locked. Our melee simply know how to use PDT sets, maybe that's what you are missing. Is it still close to impossible without PD and a pure luck based fight?

nah bro, its all luck

[Mafai]

Full farming 6 is easily possible if you split up your group.

When I go we have 2 people bijou farming, and everyone else at 1 odious camp. We full farm 4-5 odious pop sets then move to NMs as a group.

If we were able to split up into 2 different farming groups (one near skull/horn, other near pen/blood NM) I think we could full farm/kill 6-7 ADLs a run. Your first run will always be the hardest (or a run after you didn't get much odious overflow), but there is usually always odious overflow. Its easier to kill everything in your path then avoid mobs to get to what you need.

Any leftover time can be used to kill DL's to save time next run.

Yesterday we had a full pop (all tomes) and went in and farmed 5 odious sets, and killed 5 of each NM for the tomes. We killed all 6 ADL's and I believe 1-2 additional normal DL's with 5 minutes leftover (we ran out of bijous).

[mdkuser]

I read the last few posts and realize there are people that think it might be possible to maximize your potential number of ADL kills lol. Says a lot. so some people bring in 18 people to only get 2-3 marrow?

It takes 30min for a group of 6 to get 6/6 of every odious, if you destroy every thing in sight. Three groups will thus get full very fast (18/18.. even though you won't pop 18 ADL the next day of course) . Only problem is NMs droping bijou (luck,competition), and a group of 18 doesn't have the problem of travelling between ???s, since they split lol. So on your farming runs you get all your odious and bijoux in the first hour, pop them the next hour. Since each tome NM dies in 30s~1min with 6 if you bring non fail jobs, thats plenty of time. The next 2 days you pop your ADLs (1 ADL every 10min if you take death/preparation into account is ~10 ADL per session).

Total: 20 ADL in 3 days, enjoy your 300millions spli twith 18 people.