Neo-Dynamis Changes

[Syntex]

Dynamis changed. I used to fall asleep during normal Dyna runs. Now I am wide awake. Mind you I am the only one out of the 9 of us who knows a great deal about the postings here. So not only am I the WHM, but I direct proc's and TE farming. ^^. i like it a lot tho.

Its the perfect length.

Before it was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long and drawn out and around the 2 hour mark you would want to do other things and a lot of people would afk/alttab a lot.

Getting TE's and constantly fighting without having to work a pull->sleepga->assist->resleep/silence as needed has made it a lot more enjoyable. Once we get a working system out for NM's and procs though I see this doubling our weekly amount of currency from what it was with the old system if not more.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Given the rate of staggers from a solo nin/dnc like posted above, it seems we can pretty much break it down into two possibilities.

1. Any JA/WS/spell can trigger, but only has a cerain percentage chance to do so.
2. A specific JA/WS/spell is generated at the time of claim based on what members of your party/alliance can perform.

Honestly, the first one seems more likely to me, given the repeated nature of peopleclaiming that provoke didn't stagger a mob the first x times. Plus, it seems like it would be much easier to code for than parsing the contenets of your entire party every time you claim a mob. It should be fairly easy to test for, just take a job with only one JA like WAR, bring a JA-less sleeper like rdm/whm or brd, get TEs, sleep something, and voke until you proc. Then add a JA heavy job or two like drg, dnc, or thf, pull a new mob and see if you still can proc with just voke.

[Arthars]

so now i have to nin/dnc + dual box whm outside pt to get mad money? hehehehe

[TheDirtyHobo]

Why sub DNC? \WAR would narrow down the possibilities to 1 (2 if SE are real asshole and Mijin counts?) And you don't need the healing if you're bringing outside WHM.

[Daiiawn]

Im reasonably sure that the proc is just any random ja/ws/spell that you can do at x%, try having your dd's sub war and all spamming voke on ja mobs, can also have then try spamming crap ws' in non ws gear as well to see if proc. Did a duo xarc last night and were able to proc every single mob once we had 3 te's, on the magic mobs i was able to proc just by alternating dia1/2 over and over.

For the people who have also noticed colors changing etc once 3/5 4/5 5/5 TE, have you noticed what TE's you have got in which order, if so please post it.

Last nights we got crimson > azure > amber > alabastor > Obsidian, i want to try and narrow down what each one does.

My current theory is something along the lines of
Staggers have 3 levels, Basic (Blue), Medium (Grellow), Full (Red)
Crimson TE - Allow you to proc on ws mobs
Azure TE - Allow you to proc on Magic mobs
Amber TE - Allow you to proc on Magic mobs
Alabastor/Obsidian - Either change your stagger to a certain color, or bump it 1 "level"

Next chance i get, im probably going to try something like, get Azure TE > See if i can proc on mages > get alabastor/obsidian and see if that changes proc color, then might try and get a run doing some testing with color stagger to see if yellow/blue yeilds more 100s than red was.

*If that theory is right, nin/dnc would probably work better since iirc dnc can do a ja faster than once every 30s. Even when 5/5 KI's we only had a 50% proc rate, so we had some fights where we were waiting on voke recast to stagger

[Sorantia]

Just duo'd a Dynamis - Xarcabard run, I agree that Any JA, WS, and Spells can stagger. I don't think there's a set at all, but I do think there's a chance that you will stagger, regardless of what jobs.

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but regardless of the stagger, they all terror'd the demons in Dynamis - Xarcabard, and if you stagger before they used 2hr, they are prevented from using 2hr. I have a very strong number of cases to support this, in fact. None of the demons 2hr'd if staggered before they used it.

I don't believe staggering improves relic AFs drop at all. Throughout the entire run, only saw two AFs DRG and PLD, but every mobs we staggered dropped at least 1 coin. Average is 2. Rarely got 3 per.

[Daiiawn]

That actually partly goes against what i saw last night (the 2hr bit), while Red proc would cancel 2hr if active and lock it if not used, mobs were still definatly able to use their 2hr after they had been Yellow staggered. I may have a SS of it, not 100% sure, will check

*Edit found them

Spoiler: show

http://www.chroma-linkshell.co.uk/daiiawn/yellow1.jpg
http://www.chroma-linkshell.co.uk/daiiawn/yellow2.jpg

I also have a screenshot of a blue proc which doesnt seem to knock off 2hr (it was mide pd when it went off), but the last dodge is only 1s after stagger and i dont have the time it used pd in SS so its not conclusive

[Sorantia]

That actually partly goes against what i saw last night (the 2hr bit), while Red proc would cancel 2hr if active and lock it if not used, mobs were still definatly able to use their 2hr after they had been Yellow staggered. I may have a SS of it, not 100% sure, will check

Really? So, that means that red would only cancel/lock out their 2hr, while Yellow doesn't. Thing is, I'm definitely convinced that Red would cancel/lock out their 2hr. None of the mobs, I mean NONE of the mobs used their 2hr after the red. It's really good as confirmed, I mean, it wasn't just a few it was like 15~20, with RDMs, BLMs, MNKs, NINs, BRDs and SMNs at least.

So what does yellow do, let alone blue?

[Daiiawn]

Blue unknown, i wasnt close enough to see, although i was told the mob was moving (ie not under terror) just not tping

Yellow is Terror effect, but mob can use 2hr later in the fight. Not sure of effect if Yellow stagger during 2hr, my assumption is it wouldnt knock it off (ie mob will still have it when Terror wears as terror seems shorter than 30s)

Red is Terror, will cancel mob 2hr if in effect and will lock 2hr if it hasnt been used. Not sure how it works on pop nms that can 2hr multiple times (You are right on this bit, red definatly does cancel/lock 2hrs)

[Sorantia]

Has anyone confirmed that red would still prevent pop NMs from using 2hr, or does it keep on using 2hrs?

Blue unknown, i wasnt close enough to see, although i was told the mob was moving (ie not under terror) just not tping

Yellow is Terror effect, but mob can use 2hr later in the fight. Not sure of effect if Yellow stagger during 2hr, my assumption is it wouldnt knock it off (ie mob will still have it when Terror wears as terror seems shorter than 30s)

Might be a bit of a stretch, given that they still uses 2hr, but, what of blue gives them short amnesia, and yellow gives them mute. It's a stretch, but it could make sense, but regardless of colours, staggers would terror them.

[Jem]

In all the fights where we procc'ed red on the force pop NM's (I go with Daiiawn) I didn't see any of the NM's 2 hour again. But we do have a tendency to just zerg the force pop NM's (2 Masamune + 1 Apoc + 2 BRD's), so if they get terrored they don't normally unterror before they die. And if they do then they're usually below 10%.

[Siatdiat]

Why sub DNC? \WAR would narrow down the possibilities to 1 (2 if SE are real asshole and Mijin counts?) And you don't need the healing if you're bringing outside WHM.

Because that aspect wasn't clear to me before I entered. I had some steps not proc, then proc on 2nd or 3rd try, so def from now on I would use /war, but when I was entering I thought the best thing was to have many possible ja to proc with.

Edit: Just realized this was in response to Arthars.

[AzazaelFenrir]

Has anyone confirmed that red would still prevent pop NMs from using 2hr, or does it keep on using 2hrs?

In all the fights where we procc'ed red on the force pop NM's (I go with Daiiawn) I didn't see any of the NM's 2 hour again. But we do have a tendency to just zerg the force pop NM's (2 Masamune + 1 Apoc + 2 BRD's), so if they get terrored they don't normally unterror before they die. And if they do then they're usually below 10%.

Force pop NMs appear to be immune to the locked two thing. I had my group in Dyna Windy last night and decided to try the PLD/NIN NM in heavens tower. Got a JA stagger and it still invincibled. Thought okay maybe since it was a JA proc I locked the NIN 2 hour. The massive explosion that ended up wiping my little group a little later proved me wrong on that theory.

for ja procs I have had much better luck going /dnc while on MNK. I don't think it is one set ability that will proc, but that every ja has a chance to proc. MNK/WAR has 2 JA's to try, where MNK/DNC has 7 (I think, I might have miscounted).

[Daiiawn]

Because that aspect wasn't clear to me before I entered. I had some steps not proc, then proc on 2nd or 3rd try, so def from now on I would use /war, but when I was entering I thought the best thing was to have many possible ja to proc with.

I would personally go /dnc, the fact that stuff is proccing on the 2nd or 3rd attempts, points to it being a % chance to trigger rather than 100% one specific JA. If it is a % based one, you are better going something that can spam JA's, iirc dnc can do a ja more frequently than the voke war can do every 30s. So spamming ja's as nin/dnc should proc faster than voke spam as nin/war.

[Siatdiat]

I would personally go /dnc, the fact that stuff is proccing on the 2nd or 3rd attempts, points to it being a % chance to trigger rather than 100% one specific JA. If it is a % based one, you are better going something that can spam JA's, iirc dnc can do a ja more frequently than the voke war can do every 30s. So spamming ja's as nin/dnc should proc faster than voke spam as nin/war.

I don't know about that, steps and flourishes can proc, that is 6 total ja to attempt to proc with. I had great results but like all random is random shit in ffxi, I am sure there are times when I can have bad luck and not proc but like 25%.

P.S. What about having a mage in a duo not use a weapon, and see if it keeps the mob from needing any ws but the nin to proc? Although I can't get many ws off per mob on my nin, unless I take all my gear off and tp/dd naked, or go fight higher level ones farther in. Neither of these ideas make sense though, what seems to work best for me is proc what I could and kill ws mobs asap.

[AzazaelFenrir]

I don't know about that, steps and flourishes can proc, that is 6 total ja to attempt to proc with. I had great results but like all random is random shit in ffxi, I am sure there are times when I can have bad luck and not proc but like 25%.

P.S. What about having a mage in a duo not use a weapon, and see if it keeps the mob from needing any ws but the nin to proc? Although I can't get many ws off per mob on my nin, unless I take all my gear off and tp/dd naked, or go fight higher level ones farther in. Neither of these ideas make sense though, what seems to work best for me is proc what I could and kill ws mobs asap.

Again all evidence points to 'all' ws having a % chance to proc. If every WS has a 25% chance to proc, having 2 people or 18 people in party/alliance won't chance that 25%. Unlike abyssea there is no magic bullet here (at least that anyone has seen).

[Plow]

Has anyone confirmed that red would still prevent pop NMs from using 2hr, or does it keep on using 2hrs?



Might be a bit of a stretch, given that they still uses 2hr, but, what of blue gives them short amnesia, and yellow gives them mute. It's a stretch, but it could make sense, but regardless of colours, staggers would terror them.

cannot confirm on pop nm's, but I can confirm on thf nm in xarc I've procced with animated flourish and it canceled his perfect dodge

[Siatdiat]

Again all evidence points to 'all' ws having a % chance to proc. If every WS has a 25% chance to proc, having 2 people or 18 people in party/alliance won't chance that 25%. Unlike abyssea there is no magic bullet here (at least that anyone has seen).

Having the rdm tping slowly as fuck is annoying. There is a point where the time it takes to kill a mob while trying to proc is a waste of time imo. Better to kill off and move on. To clarify, I will not be able to use all katana ws before mob is dead, so I cycle through a few until its dead, usually only 3 but maybe 4 ws. I still wonder what evidence exactly points at it being a 25% chance for all ws, because the most noticable proc missing on my runs have been ws, with a nin and rdm, and only had rdm try and tp like twice and felt like it was wasted.

Additionally, I don't get your point about it being same chance to proc regardless of group size. Large group is going to HAVE to fight VT mobs or I doubt they will ever proc anything at all. If you have 18 people zerging down the ep mobs and trying to proc they will not have the time to even try anything before the mobs are dead. Even if they do work on the VT mobs, I think the problem will always be ws mobs. With an alliance, there isn't that much spell difference between certain classes, and there are even less ja, but if you have purposefully spread out jobs and have every melee class present, and it could be any of the mages weapons, then I can't imagine often proccing weapons. Technically I would say the best combo if you are taking in more than a duo is to take in same jobs not different jobs. Just double up on your duo so can keep spamming same procs.

This all brings up a huge ? mark in my mind. If you enter with 18 and have tons of jobs present, and split up, are you fucking yourself over or is there some amount of range in play? This would be extremely hard to test but pretty important to figure out in regards to trying to split an alliance to farm different areas/NMs.

[Plow]

The only way that's possible is if it's picking specific weaknesses and changing throughout the fight, because it's most definitely not picking 1 ability and staying that.

[Daiiawn]

I don't know about that, steps and flourishes can proc, that is 6 total ja to attempt to proc with. I had great results but like all random is random shit in ffxi, I am sure there are times when I can have bad luck and not proc but like 25%.

P.S. What about having a mage in a duo not use a weapon, and see if it keeps the mob from needing any ws but the nin to proc? Although I can't get many ws off per mob on my nin, unless I take all my gear off and tp/dd naked, or go fight higher level ones farther in. Neither of these ideas make sense though, what seems to work best for me is proc what I could and kill ws mobs asap.

Just to clarify what i was saying there, IF as i suspect, each and every ja can proc with a % chance, going /dnc means you can do one step (the same step over and over it doesnt matter), every 15 seconds, as opposed to going /war and only having one chance at proccing every 30s. Going /dnc should over time, proc twice as fast as a /war assuming that all JA can proc and its just a % chance of proc. Its why something like sam/nin is useless for JA proccing, we only get Blade Bash on a stupidly long timer, the lower the timer on a mob target ja, the better, doesnt matter if you get 1 mob target JA or 100.